Author Topic: Invisibility and sneak attacks  (Read 2757 times)

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Chemus

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Invisibility and sneak attacks
« on: February 23, 2009, 04:33:32 PM »
Quote from: SRD
Invisibility does not, by itself, make a creature immune to critical hits, but it does make the creature immune to extra damage from being a ranger's favored enemy and from sneak attacks.

I'd never noticed this before; is this a known quantity, or is it something the has been buried for a while? It looks pretty handy.

I mean a warlock with walk unseen, or retributive invisibility is immune to what amounts to precision damage, no?

What can be done with this if it's news?
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RobbyPants

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Re: Invisibility and sneak attacks
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2009, 04:37:06 PM »
The rules are printed in the abilities themselves, such as Sneak Attack.  The main point is that things like Sneak Attack can only be used if the target is not under concealment of some sort.  So things like Darkness, Blur, and Invisibility throw a wrench in an attacking rogue's plans. 
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Invisibility and sneak attacks
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2009, 04:38:01 PM »
Wow, never noticed that myself either. Nice :D
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Chemus

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Re: Invisibility and sneak attacks
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2009, 04:40:44 PM »
The rules are printed in the abilities themselves, such as Sneak Attack.  The main point is that things like Sneak Attack can only be used if the target is not under concealment of some sort.  So things like Darkness, Blur, and Invisibility throw a wrench in an attacking rogue's plans. 

:facepalm

You're right of course. Damn. Well being immune to the extra damage for being a favored enemy is not called out in the favored enemy description anyways. That part is news to me. Not nearly as handy. Ah well.
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Operation Shoestring

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Re: Invisibility and sneak attacks
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2009, 05:19:38 PM »
The rules are printed in the abilities themselves, such as Sneak Attack.  The main point is that things like Sneak Attack can only be used if the target is not under concealment of some sort.  So things like Darkness, Blur, and Invisibility throw a wrench in an attacking rogue's plans. 

:facepalm

You're right of course. Damn. Well being immune to the extra damage for being a favored enemy is not called out in the favored enemy description anyways. That part is news to me. Not nearly as handy. Ah well.

Well obviously, if you can't tell that creature is your favored enemy, nor discern it's anatomy, you can't use your hatre- i mean, extensive knowledge of the target creature type to get extra damage.

Akalsaris

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Re: Invisibility and sneak attacks
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2009, 05:03:42 PM »
What if your favored enemy is Invisible Stalker?

bitznarf

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Re: Invisibility and sneak attacks
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2009, 05:41:04 PM »
Well obviously, if you can't tell that creature is your favored enemy, nor discern it's anatomy, you can't use your hatre- i mean, extensive knowledge of the target creature type to get extra damage.
You have some actual rules support for that?  Favoured Enemy damage is not affected by concealment or the like in 3.5 as far as I can tell.  In fact the only thing affecting it is, well, if it is your favoured enemy..

Chemus

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Re: Invisibility and sneak attacks
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2009, 06:09:59 PM »
Well obviously, if you can't tell that creature is your favored enemy, nor discern it's anatomy, you can't use your hatre- i mean, extensive knowledge of the target creature type to get extra damage.
You have some actual rules support for that?  Favoured Enemy damage is not affected by concealment or the like in 3.5 as far as I can tell.  In fact the only thing affecting it is, well, if it is your favoured enemy..

Quote from: SRD
Invisibility does not, by itself, make a creature immune to critical hits, but it does make the creature immune to extra damage from being a ranger's favored enemy and from sneak attacks.

http://dndsrd.net/abilitiesAndConditions.html#invisibility
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Re: Invisibility and sneak attacks
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2009, 06:16:54 PM »
Well obviously, if you can't tell that creature is your favored enemy, nor discern it's anatomy, you can't use your hatre- i mean, extensive knowledge of the target creature type to get extra damage.
You have some actual rules support for that?  Favoured Enemy damage is not affected by concealment or the like in 3.5 as far as I can tell.  In fact the only thing affecting it is, well, if it is your favoured enemy..

Uhm, I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before.  Anyone remember what happens if you have favored enemy human, but a human enemy is disguised as an elf...?  I'm sure this has been officially ruled on.

I'm pretty sure the entry on invisibility mentions Favored Enemy, because if something is invisible, you can't tell if it is your favored enemy type or not.  That's only my interpretation, however.

bitznarf

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Re: Invisibility and sneak attacks
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2009, 07:49:21 PM »
Ah, found it, thanks.  It appears that both incorporeality and invisibility negate favoured enemy bonuses but plain concealment does not.  Sometimes, the 3.5 rules are startlingly inconsistent.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Invisibility and sneak attacks
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2009, 08:00:35 PM »
Ah, found it, thanks.  It appears that both incorporeality and invisibility negate favoured enemy bonuses but plain concealment does not.  Sometimes, the 3.5 rules are startlingly inconsistent.
WTF... so Favored Enemy: Undead is useless against all Incorporeal undead? That is pretty lame... and makes no sense. I could at least understand why Invisibility might negate the bonus, per the discussion in this thread.
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bitznarf

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Re: Invisibility and sneak attacks
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2009, 12:56:14 PM »
WTF... so Favored Enemy: Undead is useless against all Incorporeal undead? That is pretty lame... and makes no sense. I could at least understand why Invisibility might negate the bonus, per the discussion in this thread.
Yeah, that was my reaction when I saw this little bit of text...
Quote from: SRD
Incorporeal creatures are immune to critical hits, extra damage from being favoured enemies, and from sneak attacks.
Now for more rules stupidity lets add swift hunter into this...  You could get your skirmish damage, but not your favoured enemy damage vs incorporeals... and somehow ghost touch doesn't make a difference to this.  Nor do greater truedeath crystals - there appears to be no way according to the RAW (that I know of) to actually get sneak attack damage or favoured enemy damage vs incorporeal opponents.  If the incorporeal entry simply said 'immune to crits' (and thus immune to sneak attack) then truedeath/deathstrike bracers would work, but it doesn't - it actually calls out both as separate immunities.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 01:01:13 PM by bitznarf »

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Invisibility and sneak attacks
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2009, 02:22:23 PM »
Ah, I think that's just a holdover from 3.0 when favored enemy was considered precision damage. They just forgot to delete it...
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Optimator

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Re: Invisibility and sneak attacks
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2009, 09:23:15 PM »
Ah, I think that's just a holdover from 3.0 when favored enemy was considered precision damage. They just forgot to delete it...
That makes a lot of sense, and I bet it's true, but it would be pretty hard to prove such a claim.

Chemus

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Re: Invisibility and sneak attacks
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2009, 09:43:42 PM »
Not unless you have both the 3.0 SRD and the 3.5 SRD. Which I might. Heck, they might both be on wizards website still, rather than just the 3.5.
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