Author Topic: [3.5] New base class: Sectarian Agent (PEACH)  (Read 1884 times)

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bihlbo

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[3.5] New base class: Sectarian Agent (PEACH)
« on: February 21, 2009, 12:16:35 AM »
Please let me know what you think about the mechanics of this class, it's not entirely my creation. How well is it balanced? In what tier would you place the class?

Of special note is the way they cast spells. It is not the same as the core classes, so don't skim over that part.

Table: The Sectarian Agent
Code: [Select]

                        Fort    Ref     Will
Level   BAB             Save    Save    Save    Special
1       +0              +0      +0      +2      Spells
2       +1              +0      +0      +3      Level 1 spells, magical school, summon familiar
3       +2              +1      +1      +3      Level 2 spells, sectarian influence
4       +3              +1      +1      +4      Bonus feat
5       +3              +1      +1      +4      Level 3 spells, magical school
6       +4              +2      +2      +5      sectarian influence
7       +5              +2      +2      +5      Bonus feat, level 4 spells,
8       +6/+1           +2      +2      +6      magical school
9       +6/+1           +3      +3      +6      Level 5 spells, sectarian influence
10      +7/+2           +3      +3      +7      Bonus feat
11      +8/+3           +3      +3      +7      Level 6 spells, magical school
12      +9/+4           +4      +4      +8      sectarian influence
13      +9/+4           +4      +4      +8      Bonus feat, level 7 spells,
14      +10/+5          +4      +4      +9      magical school
15      +11/+6/+1       +5      +5      +9      Level 8 spells, sectarian influence
16      +12/+7/+2       +5      +5      +10     Bonus feat
17      +12/+7/+2       +5      +5      +10     Level 9 spells, magical school
18      +13/+8/+3       +6      +6      +11     sectarian influence
19      +14/+9/+4       +6      +6      +11     Bonus feat
20      +15/+10/+5      +6      +6      +12     Magical school

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d6

Class Skills
The sectarian agent's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidation (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (n/a), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at per level: 4 + Int modifier.

Sectarian Agent Class Abilities

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sectarian agents are skilled with all simple weapons. Sectarian agents are not proficient with any type of armor or with shields. Armor of any type exposes a sectarian agents to the risk of spell failure.

Spells: A sectarian agent casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the spell lists of bards, druids, sorcerers, and wizards. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time.

To learn or cast a spell, a sectarian agent must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a sectarian agent's spell is 10 + the spell level + the sectarian agent's Charisma modifier.

A sectarian agent does not have spell slots as other spellcasters. Instead, he has a pool of spell levels he can spend to power the casting of spells. A sectarian agent's pool of spell levels is equal to his Charisma modifier plus his class level. This pool of spell levels refreshes after having a full night's rest. Enhancements to the sectarian agent's Charisma score only result in additional spell levels if the enhancement persists through a full night's sleep, and the resulting spell levels are lost if not spent before his Charisma score returns to normal.

A sectarian agent may cast a number of 0-level spells per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. After this, each 0-level spell costs one spell level. Casting higher-level spells reduces the sectarian agent's pool of spell levels by an amount equal to the level of the spell. Once a sectarian agent has run out of spell levels, he may take Constitution damage to power spells. Doing so results in an amount of Constitution damage equal to the level of the spell, or the remaining levels of a spell after using the last of his spell level pool to power the casting. This Constitution damage is healed in full after a full night's rest, but cannot be healed through magical means.

The sectarian agent's selection of spells is extremely limited, but drawn from a broad selection. Any time a sectarian agent has an opportunity to learn a new spell, he may select the spell from the spell lists of the bard, druid, sorcerer, or wizard. These spells are available at the earliest possible level, however if a spell is on the bard list and the sorcerer/wizard list, it is available only at the level listed on the sorcerer/wizard list. A sectarian agent begins play knowing four 0-level spells of his choice. Thereafter his selection of new spells is limited to the magical schools he knows. At each class level after the first the sectarian agent learns two new spells of any level and school he can cast.

A sectarian agent may cast spells of a certain level when his class level is equal to double the spell level minus one, as shown on Table: The Sectarian Agent.

Magical School: At 2nd level and every 3rd level thereafter a sectarian agent gains access to a new school of magic of his choice. The schools of magic are: Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, and Transmutation. A sectarian agent cannot learn or cast spells of a school to which he has no access. For the purposes of activating magic items and the like, the sectarian agent is only considered to have a spell on his spell list if it is of a magical school to which he has access.

Summon Familiar: A sectarian agent can obtain a familiar.

Sectarian Influence (Su): Sectarian agents manipulate magic through sheer force of will, and that same personal power can be used to affect living beings. At 3rd level, sectarian agents are gifted with the ability to extend that force of will to affect the actions, thoughts, and emotions of others. The sectarian agent may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. At 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter (at 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level), the sectarian agent gains another use per day of this ability and may choose one of the powers listed below. A 3rd-level sectarian agent must choose either inspire fascination, inspire confidence, or inspire fury. Unless otherwise noted, using the sectarian influence power requires a move action to activate and a move action to maintain. Some sectarian influence abilities require either a standard action to activate, a standard action each round to maintain concentration, or both.

Unless otherwise stated, each power must be used independently. For instance, if a sectarian agent with the inspire confidence ability and the inspire fury ability wants to use both to assist his comrades, he may only activate one such ability per round.

Inspire Confidence: The sectarian agent can use his strong sense of self to help others resist assaults on their minds. To be affected, an ally must be within 60 ft. and be able to see and hear the sectarian agent. For as long as the sectarian agent continues to use this ability as a move action, all affected creatures gain a +4 morale bonus to saves against enchantment or fear effects. If an ally is already being affected by an enchantment or fear effect when this ability is activated, he may immediately make a new saving throw with the +4 morale bonus to end the effect. Inspire confidence has no effect against effects that don't allow saves. Inspire confidence is a mind-affecting ability, and may be maintained for 1 round per class level.

Inspire Fascination: The sectarian agent can use his conversational skills, performances, or sheer magnetic personality to cause one or more creatures to become fascinated. Target creatures must be within 120 ft., be able to see and hear the sectarian agent, and able to pay attention to him. The sectarian agent must also be able to see the creature. The distraction of a nearby combat or other dangers prevents the ability from working. The sectarian agent can target one creature per class level.

Activating this ability requires a standard action. Each target must make a Will save (DC equal to 10 + 1/2 sectarian agent's class level + Cha modifier). If a creature's saving throw succeeds, the sectarian agent cannot attempt to fascinate that creature again for 24 hours. If its saving throw fails, the creature sits quietly and watches or listens to the sectarian agent, taking no other actions, for as long as the sectarian agent continues to speak or perform and concentrate as a standard action (up to a maximum of 1 round per class level). While fascinated, a target takes a -4 penalty on skill checks made as reactions, such as Listen and Spot checks. Any potential threat allows the creature a new saving throw.

Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a ranged weapon at the target, automatically breaks the effect. Inspire fascination is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting ability.

Inspire Fury: The sectarian agent can use his powerful presence to inspire his allies (including himself), bolstering them against attacks and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be within 60 ft. and able to see and hear the sectarian agent. The effect lasts for as long as the sectarian agent maintains the ability (or for as long as the ally is in range and can see and hear the sectarian agent) and for 5 rounds thereafter. The effect may be maintained for up to 1 round per sectarian agent level. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on initiative rolls, attack rolls, and weapon damage rolls. Inspire fury is a mind-affecting ability.

Improved Fury (Requires Inspire Fury): When the sectarian agent uses the inspire fury ability, affected creatures gain an additional +1 morale bonus on initiative rolls, attack rolls, and weapon damage rolls. This gift may be chosen multiple times, and its effects stack.

Improved Confidence (Requires Inspire Confidence): When the sectarian agent uses the inspire confidence ability, even allies that fail their saves against enchantment effects only suffer the effects for half the normal duration. Likewise, allies that fail their saves against fear effects suffer the next lowest fear status: panicked allies are merely frightened, frightened allies are merely shaken, and shaken characters become unaffected.

Suggestion (Requires Inspire Fascination): When the sectarian agent uses the inspire fascination ability, he can make a suggestion (as the spell) as a standard action to a creature that he has already fascinated (see above). Using this ability does not break the sectarian agent's concentration on the fascinate effect, nor does it allow a second saving throw against the fascinate effect. A Will saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 sectarian agent's class level + Cha modifier) negates the effect.

Making a suggestion uses up one of the sectarian agent's daily allotments of sectarian influence uses. Suggestion is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, language-dependent ability.

Greater Fury (Requires Inspire Fury and Improved Fury): When the sectarian agent uses his inspire fury ability, he can inspire greater fury in himself or a single willing ally within 30 feet as a move action, granting him or her extra fighting capability. The effect lasts for as long as the inspire fury ability continues to affect the target. A creature inspired with greater fury gains 2 bonus Hit Dice (d10s), the commensurate number of temporary hit points (apply the target's Constitution modifier, if any, to these bonus Hit Dice), a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls, and a +1 competence bonus on Fortitude saves. The bonus Hit Dice count as regular Hit Dice for determining the effect of spells that are Hit Dice dependent.

Each use of greater fury on a single target uses up one of the sectarian agent's daily allotments of sectarian influence uses. Greater fury is a mind-affecting ability.

Greater Confidence (Requires Inspire Confidence and Improved Confidence): When the sectarian agent uses his inspire confidence ability, after five rounds of using the ability, he may target one ally within range as a standard action. That ally receives the benefits of a break enchantment spell (caster level equal to the sectarian agent's class level). For every subsequent 5 rounds of using the inspire confidence ability, the sectarian agent may use this ability an additional time.

Each use of greater confidence on a single target uses up one of the sectarian agent's daily allotments of force of personality uses. A sectarian agent can't use greater confidence on himself.

Mass Suggestion (Requires Inspire Fascination and Suggestion): This ability functions like suggestion, above, except that the sectarian agent can make the suggestion simultaneously to one creature per three class levels that he has already fascinated (see above).

Each creature targeted with mass suggestion uses up one of the sectarian agent's daily allotments of sectarian influence uses. Mass suggestion is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, language-dependent ability.

Bonus Feat: A sectarian agent gains a bonus feat at 4th level and every three levels thereafter. The sectarian agent must choose Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, an item creation feat, or a metamagic feat.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 04:56:06 PM by bihlbo »
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VennDygrem

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Re: [3.5] New base class: Sectarian Agent (PEACH I beg you)
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2009, 01:26:06 AM »
One thing you should definitely remove is the line saying: "A sectarian agent may cast spells of a level equal to half his class level + 1, as shown on Table: The Sectarian Agent."

The way this is worded, you actually get spells a level earlier than the table (and thus a level earlier than even the Wizard). 9th level spells at level 16, as half is 8 + 1 = 9. That's not quite right. :O

All in all if you fix that, it's an interesting take, but I can't decide whether it's overly powerful to have access to all those spell lists, or overly limiting to have to choose so strictly from them, and within the confines of the spell level pool. Even if it's not any more limiting than existing classes, it still seems a little overly complex. Certainly more so than spell slots.

Bozwevial

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Re: [3.5] New base class: Sectarian Agent (PEACH I beg you)
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2009, 01:40:16 AM »
Reword the line to read "A sectarian agent may cast spells of a certain level when his class level is equal to double the spell level minus one." That should be closer to what you were aiming for.

The spell level pool strikes me as similar to the psionics system, in a way. In a way, this is good--on a four encounters/day basis, you'll have something major to contribute each fight--but you'll run out of steam pretty quickly.

VennDygrem

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Re: [3.5] New base class: Sectarian Agent (PEACH I beg you)
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2009, 03:29:04 AM »
That's precisely what I was thinking of. Really not sure whether it's better that way or not. It certainly makes for an interesting version of the bard, with larger spell selection at the cost of being able to wear armor, etc.

Actually, now that I think about it, maybe a Psionic Bard class wouldn't be a terrible idea.

>_>

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bkdubs123

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Re: [3.5] New base class: Sectarian Agent (PEACH I beg you)
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2009, 03:50:03 AM »
It's gotta be Tier 2. Mid to High. Make sure that by 7th level you have Transmutation as a Magical School and it's already game over. Choose Conjuration or Enchantment first, the other third, there's just not much you can do about a spellcaster with 9th level spells to prevent it from being at least Tier 2 if it can access the entire wiz/sorc list.

I will admit though that it is an interesting take on the Bard/Sorcerer.

bihlbo

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Re: [3.5] New base class: Sectarian Agent (PEACH I beg you)
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2009, 07:18:24 PM »
Thank you for the correction on the spell availability line, I made the change.

You all realize that the list of spells available to learn is far more limited than for a sor/wiz right?

I will give an example to illustrate things. At level 5 you can only have access to 2 schools of magic. If you pick Enchantment (probably most likely due to having a good Cha) and Conjuration to get some healing spells, you can choose from these lists:

Code: [Select]
Enchantment Conjuration

Level 1 Level 1
Calm animal Cure light wounds
Charm animal Grease
Charm person Mage armor
Confusion, lesser Mount
Hypnotism Obscuring mist
Sleep Summon monster I
Summon nature's ally I
Unseen servant

Level 2 Level 2
Animal messenger Acid arrow
Animal trance Cure moderate wounds
Calm emotions Delay poison
Daze monster Fog cloud
Enthrall Glitterdust
Hold animal Restoration, lesser
Hideous laughter Summon monster II
Hypnotic pattern Summon nature's ally II
Touch of idiocy Summon swarm
Web

Level 3 Level 3
Deep slumber Cure serious wounds
Dominate animal Neutralize poison
Heroism Phantom steed
Hold person Sepia snake sigil
Rage Sleet storm
Suggestion Stinking cloud
Remove disease
Summon monster III
Summon nature's ally III

And from that list, you can choose 8. Only 2 of those (at 5th level) can be level 3 spells, or they can all be level 1 spells, mix them up as you like.

So you're 5th level, you just got access to Conjuration and chose summon monster III (which will never be replaced or swapped out like the bard and sorcerer could do) and cure light wounds. Your other spells are all Enchantment, spell levels 1 or 2 (I'm ignoring 0-level for this). So you chose hypnotism, sleep, hideous laughter, hold animal, touch of idiocy, and daze monster.

In a fight you decide to cast all the spells you can. Since your Cha is 19 and you're a 5th level sectarian agent, you have 9 spell levels in your pool. You cast summon monster III (down to 6), daze monster (down to 4), sleep twice since half of them resisted it (down to 2), and cure light wounds twice after the fight. No more spells today.

What it comes out to is the potential to cast a few more spells per day than a bard (if they are all higher-level it's far less than a bard), with slightly more options for spells known and higher level spells, and a wider list within each magical school. The trade off is full arcane casting failure, a somewhat weaker version of bardic music (without bard knowledge), no spell replacement, and magical school limitations.
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bkdubs123

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Re: [3.5] New base class: Sectarian Agent (PEACH I beg you)
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2009, 08:06:01 PM »
Ultimately, it doesn't matter. Your class is less forgiving of poor spell choices, but if you know what you're doing, the class is still incredibly powerful.

If at 5th level, you chose, Transmutation and Necromancy instead, and you now have Ray of Enfeeblement and Alter Self, as well as Ghoul Touch and Haste. And that's only half your spells known. At 7th you have Polymorph and Animate Dead or Enervation (for Maximized Split Ray fun). At 8th level go ahead and grab up Conjuration finally so you can have Dimension Door and so you can pick up some amazing stuff later. I think you can see where it all goes downhill from here regardless of what spells you take. Polymorph Any Object, Gate, Create Undead, Major Creation, Save or Dies, etc... you still have all the spells per day you need, and you still have all the most powerful spells in the game. So the class is still at the very least Tier 2.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 08:08:12 PM by bkdubs123 »

bogsnes

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Re: [3.5] New base class: Sectarian Agent (PEACH I beg you)
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2009, 05:05:54 PM »
A VERY low Tier 2 in that case, or probably a very strong Tier 3 due to VERY few spells per day...

At level 20, if you have 34 Cha (you should probably have about that by level 20), you can cast 32 spell levels per day...

That is MAX 4 8th-level spells, or 3 9th and one 5th...

Sure, they are powerful, but very limited...

The only thing to watch for is powerful all day buffs...

I think you actually should INCREASE their Spells per day to twice their class level + twice their cha mod... (with a limitation of how much you can benefit from a high Cha, probably something like maximum 4xclass level bonus spell levels...

bkdubs123

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Re: [3.5] New base class: Sectarian Agent (PEACH I beg you)
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2009, 06:48:36 PM »
As I understand the Tier system to work, it shouldn't matter how many spells per day it is capable of casting. When casting a single spell ONCE can break the game, and you are capable of casting that spell, you are among the most powerful classes in the game. But, yes, since the Sorcerer or Wizard can break the game more times each day than you, yes they are considered to be more powerful, but really, how much more useful is it to be able to create you own morphic time demi-plane 4 times a day than just once, to gain infinite Wishes multiple times over, or to gain the ability to cast any spell from any spell list again and again?

bogsnes

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Re: [3.5] New base class: Sectarian Agent (PEACH I beg you)
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2009, 11:04:49 AM »
But still, when a Sorcerer is REALLY low tier 2, and this class has about as many spells known, with WAY less per day, it is VERY low tier 2, then, probably somewhere in the cross-over...

If your DM lets you do crazy things, well, then you are good, a limited amount of time per day, if not, you suck...

bihlbo

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Re: [3.5] New base class: Sectarian Agent (PEACH I beg you)
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2009, 04:49:22 PM »
Everyone, thank you for your replies.

Let me explain why I posted this. The "sectarian agent" above is just a re-phrased version of the channeler class from Midnight. In Midnight the channeler can be either Int, Wis, or Cha-based, and the whole mechanic for arcane magic is unique. I rephrased that information in such a way as to make the class function the same way but be more understandable in a self-contained format (i.e. "spell energy" becomes "spell level pool", etc). And I limited it to the Charismatic version, but really the three versions are separate enough to be different classes if you want to write them that way.

The reason I posted this is because I've been struggling for a while with trying to judge the channeler's overall relative strength in the game. Most of the time I don't have that much trouble with this kind of analysis, but the Midnight setting is very different from normal D&D, so I wanted some fresh eyes to take a look at how the class stacks up against normal D&D classes.

One of the things that makes the channeler in Midnight kinda gimped is that the clerics of the world are tasked by the evil god (only god) to hunt down and slaughter anyone who practices arcane magic, and they do so using an animal companion-like creature capable of sniffing out arcane magic from miles away. So within the game you basically have three options if you want to play a spellcaster: stay in the parts of the world remote enough that the clerics can't find and hunt you, be very careful about when you cast what spells, or try to not cast spells unless you have to. If you pick the first option (virtually no risk), the channeler is one of the better classes in the game, but the game usually isn't as interesting. If you pick the second option (moderate-to-high risk), that eliminates virtually all spells that have a long duration (1 min/level is pushing it) and most higher-level spells. The third option (moderate-to-high risk) means taking the most powerful spells you can, spending most fights and encounters being a lame duck, and breaking the game from time to time (like, "I've been waiting all week for this, CLOUDKILL!!").

Keep in mind we're talking about a cleric with an animal companion, who usually has a small army of orcs with him, and some lesser clerics. You don't want to mess with them - a "high tier 3 bard-like class" with fighters and rogues for allies are pretty toast against a couple of suped-up clerics. So putting the whole party at risk just so you can have an extended polymorph active is usually not a good idea.

So, thanks to your input, the class seems far more balanced and potent than I originally thought.
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