Author Topic: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet  (Read 3011 times)

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Endarire

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Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« on: February 18, 2009, 12:59:12 AM »
Intro
This is my first serious attempt at an unarmed combatant, possibly with Monk levels.  My friend insists on this concept because it's new to him and refuses to budge. 

This character's purpose is to do lots of unarmed melee damage and may be the group's primary and only melee person.  He needs enough damage to be a threat but enough defense to tank.  I've gone through many build concepts, but I feel this task is far beyond my skills.  I beseech you, help me CO board!

Campaign & Character Constraints
-I'm using a 32 point buy.  Wealth and gear are standard for ECL1s.

-We begin NAKED and IMPRISONED at ECL1 with no guarantee of getting our pre-imprisonment stuff back.

-We'll probably level quickly, but I suspect we probably won't get past level 10.

-No respeccing, rebuilding, or retraining.  Ever.

-Alignments Allowed: Any Good and Neutral..

-No XP penalty for multiclassing.  Monks may multiclass freely.

-Barbarians may be any alignment.  Monks must be lawful.

-No undead PCs.  We can still rebuke, command, and create undead minions.

-Each character may have 2 flaws and 2 traits.

-All polymorph buffs are self-only.

-Magic-psionic transparency is in place.  Magic item creation feats can't be used to make psionic items and vice versa.

-The max number of skill ranks is always 3 + HD.

-As this isn't Eberron, there are no action points!

-Willing allies may pay up to 100% of the crafting XP cost.

-Disable Device also covers locks.

-Summon spells typically aren't worth casting and thus I want to avoid summoning.

-Leadership is gutted and not worth using.

-Monks and Unarmed Swordsages get a 1:1 return on Power Attack.

Source Material
-Anything 3.5 or unupdated 3.0, pending DM approval.  No wraithstrike.
-Anything from the Spell Compendium will require a "good reason" to take, but the DM will probably OK everything I wish.

Party Mates
Dragonborn Blue Conjurer5/Incantatrix10/Master Conjurer1/Archmage3/Fatespinner1
Crowd control central and buff persister.

Dragonborn Nezumi (Oriental Adventures 13) Barbarian1/Martial Transmuter5/Eldritch Knight6/Abjurant Champion5/EK+3 *UNCONFIRMED*
If she joins, she'll be a dragoon gish.

Strongheart Halfling Cloistered Cleric4/Church Inquisitor1/CC+2/Divine Disciple5/Contemplative6/CC+2
Clerical crowd controller, buffer, and would-be Wizard.  In short, he's a "preventative maintenance Cleric."

Dragonborn Buomman (Planar Handbook 8) Druid20 *UNCONFIRMED*
If she joins, she'll primarily tank.

Human Rogue1/Artificer19
He's the group's scout, skillsman, magic item maker, blastificer, and engineer.

My Build: LG Dragonborn Water Nezumi Unarmed Swordsage2/Cloistered Cleric1/Barbarian1/PsyWar2/Shou Disciple5/Monk2/Ninja of the Crescent Moon5/Swordsage+2
Stats: 14 STR/14 DEX/16 CON/14 INT/14 WIS/8 CHA

Notes: I'm fully willing to change this build to accomodate helpful critique.

Based on our interpretation of Unarmed Swordsage, we get Improved Unarmed Strike at level 1.
 
-=LEGEND=-
Specific Feat
[Class Feature or Bonus Feat]
{Trait or Flaw}

Unarmed Swordsage2/Cloistered Cleric1/Barbarian1/PsyWar2/Shou Disciple5/Monk2/Crescent5/Swordsage+2

1: {Aggressive}, Battle Jump, [Improved Unarmed Strike], Leap of the Heavens, [Murky-Eyed], {Quick}, Shadow Blade, {Shaky}, [Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike]
2: [WIS to AC]
3: [Improved Initiative], [Spontaneous Domain Casting: Time], [travel Devotion]
4: [Pounce], [Whirling Frenzy]
5: [Up the Walls]
6: [Dodge], Improved Natural Attack
8: [Weapon Finesse]
9: Snap Kick
11: [Power Attack]
12: Quick Draw, [Stunning Fist]
13: [Deflect Arrows]
15: Roundabout Kick
18: Practiced Initiator: Swordsage (Initiator level equals HD)
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Caelic

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Re: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2009, 01:56:40 AM »
A monk tank.  Hrm.

I'm going to recommend a Dwarven Ranger/Monk, with Ascetic Stalker.  That'll let you stick close to full BAB; it'll also give you most of the prerequisites to dip Deepwarden and Fist of the Forest, netting your Constitution bonus to AC twice.

Endarire

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Re: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2009, 02:00:34 AM »
Will Battle Jump suffice for melee damage as a Deepwarden?
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Operation Shoestring

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Re: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2009, 02:10:14 AM »
My personal inclination is to suggest Monk/Psywar with tashalatora, but that's Ebberon, and probably wouldn't get approved.

A pity, that. Vigor, Hostile Empathic Transfer, and Vampiric Weapon seem like they would be superb for a Monk-tank.

Dipping an incarnum class can get you ac boosts without having armor, though if this goes into high levels, AC becomes less useful. 

Alas I can't think of anything monk-y that nets you greater blink, greater mirror image, Displacement, or any similar effect.

A swordsage's access to Zephyr Dance and Baffling Defense is nice though.

Endarire

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Re: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2009, 02:26:34 AM »
What about for offense?
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Operation Shoestring

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Re: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2009, 04:25:09 AM »
What about for offense?

I assume you House-Ruled Lawful barbarians?

You already have battlejump, which is nice.  And probably martial maneuvers.  If you can pump your Unarmed damage up, a level of Shadow Sun Ninja is good for the ability to drain HP.  Doesn't Shou give you Wis to damage?  Can't really think of much else. 

A Scorpion Kama would be nice if you can sneak in something from Eberron.  And I always wanted to know how well Hazing Strike works - Arguably, it can break Rage and Frenzy as well as Combat and Psionic focus.

Hmn, if you plan to grapple, there are many good Soulmelds for that.  If you can snag a few essentia points through spare feats that may be worth it.  Girallon Arms and Mantle of Flame come to mind.

Negative Zero

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Re: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2009, 04:55:09 AM »
If you take a level in PsyWar, there is an item of some sort in an Eberron book that increases unarmed damage by one size category. Anybody remember in more detail?

Operation Shoestring

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Re: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2009, 06:00:31 AM »
If you take a level in PsyWar, there is an item of some sort in an Eberron book that increases unarmed damage by one size category. Anybody remember in more detail?

Ectoplasmic Fist?

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2009, 08:50:47 AM »
If you take a level in PsyWar, there is an item of some sort in an Eberron book that increases unarmed damage by one size category. Anybody remember in more detail?

Ectoplasmic Fist?
I believe it's in the ECS,
you need to be a Kalashtar to use it IIRC.
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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jameswilliamogle

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Re: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2009, 10:38:38 AM »
I suggest using Vow of Poverty...  Normally that's not so good, but you mentioned the game ending at L10, so...

Shadowhunter

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Re: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2009, 03:02:03 PM »
If you take a level in PsyWar, there is an item of some sort in an Eberron book that increases unarmed damage by one size category. Anybody remember in more detail?

Ectoplasmic Fist?
I believe it's in the ECS,
you need to be a Kalashtar to use it IIRC.

Kalasthar, Inspired or Quori, to be precise.
And yes, it's Ectoplasmic Fist.

A simple Build:
Monk 2/Psywarrior 18

Notable Feats:
Improved Natural Attack (unless you can get an item to do the same)
Tashalatora (PsyWar. count as monk for unarmed damage, flurry and AC)

Notable Powers:
Expansion
Vampiric Blade/Claws.

Notable Items:
1 or More Ectoplasmic Fists, depending on how many limbs you wish to beat people up with. At least 2, but 4 is points for style.
Note that these are operated into your body, so you should keep them even if locked up.
Though on second thought, a lvl 1 character shouldn't have the 4000 it cost for one of them to start with.

Other:
Monk's Belt/Superior Unarmed Strike, to gain better unarmed damage.

Tactic:
Manifest an Expansion, the bigger version.
With either the belt or the feat, your normal unarmed damage is 2d6. 4 size increases later, it's 8d6.
Not to shabby.
If your HP starts to run low, manifest Vampiric Blade and gain 4d6 Hp back for each hit.
Simple, effective enough.


Ok, this might not work if you start at lvl 1.
But it's something to keep in mind.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

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Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

Endarire

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Re: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2009, 03:13:58 PM »
With Power Attack, Leap Attack, Battle  Jump, a Ghoul Gauntlet, Fanged Ring, and Shou Disciple, I believe I'll have enough offense to manage.

Is Roundabout Kick worth keeping?
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

sonofzeal

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Re: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2009, 04:57:24 PM »
Other:
Monk's Belt/Superior Unarmed Strike, to gain better unarmed damage.

Tactic:
Manifest an Expansion, the bigger version.
With either the belt or the feat, your normal unarmed damage is 2d6. 4 size increases later, it's 8d6.
Not to shabby.
The way size increases scale, it becomes progressively more and more badass at each step.  Therefor, I highly recommend "Improved Natural Attack" for yet another size increase.  Getting them enchanted with Greater Mighty Wallop may also be a good idea.  Now to find a table that goes up that high....

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2009, 05:04:59 PM »
He already listed INA...
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

Quote from: J0lt
You caught a fish.  It was awesome.   :lol

sonofzeal

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Re: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2009, 11:57:46 PM »
He already listed INA...
Ah, my mistake.  Carry on....  :D

woodenbandman

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Re: Optimizing a Bruiser Monk - My Greatest Challenge Yet
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2009, 01:37:00 AM »
If he can achieve the saint template, he might balance out. Saint template + monk AC bonus + Vow of Poverty will give him the AC to tank, then it's a simple matter of just getting him some buffs, such as, maybe, those fire boosts coupled with Flashing Sun, or some Kensai levels to get fire/cold/acid fists.

Without saint template, he'll never have enough AC, and with it, he might be unhittable.