New character

[woodenbandman]

I should have said "Iron Heart Surge notwithstanding." That maneuver is crazy good.

I will give Iron Heart that it does have a nice blend of cool maneuvers but the capstone abilities are shit (DR5/- and +100 damage on a single attack? Bhuh?)

[Operation Shoestring]

I should have said "Iron Heart Surge notwithstanding." That maneuver is crazy good.

I will give Iron Heart that it does have a nice blend of cool maneuvers but the capstone abilities are shit (DR5/- and +100 damage on a single attack? Bhuh?)

You could say the same for tiger claw.  It's what, +20d6 as a 9th level?  LAME.

I hardly ever bother with the capstone manouvers myself. 

Iron Heart does have some stuff that is more useful than it looks however.  IIRC, Dancing Blade Form is written such that it's quite useful for creatures of tiny size or less.

[sonofzeal]

I should have said "Iron Heart Surge notwithstanding." That maneuver is crazy good.

I will give Iron Heart that it does have a nice blend of cool maneuvers but the capstone abilities are shit (DR5/- and +100 damage on a single attack? Bhuh?)

I won a lvl20 duel once by using that capstone maneuver.  I got off some good damage early, but the other guy had several size categories up on me (Wildshape build), and grappled.  One "Strike of Perfect Clarity" later with a dagger, with Deep Impact to counteract the -4 penalty, and the fight was mine.  There's a few other solutions to that problem of course, but none of the other lvl8/9 maneuvers I can think of would have let me win on that turn.  A special case I know, but it's still not as bad as I hear say.  Sometimes a lot of damage on a single attack is a good thing to have in your grab bag.  It's also (I believe) multiplied on a crit, unlike most other maneuvers.

[Bozwevial]

Strike of Perfect Clarity is okay. Not outstanding, but okay. By that level, your full attacks should be doing 100+ damage anyway, so the maneuver's chief advantage is doing that much damage in one blow (which means DR mitigates much less damage than it ordinarily would, and also probably forces a massive damage save), and being able to couple it with a move action.

[woodenbandman]

Yeah but the problem with that is that the Desert Wind maneuver does that in an AoE, and a Fire Immunity spell from your party solves that problem of killing them. So 90% of the time the Desert Wind capstone is more useful, which is fucking pitiful.

Tiger claw, however, as its last stance, has Wolf Pack Tactics, which is >> Supreme Blade Parry. Also, Feral Death Blow is a Save or Die, which is decent. The best capstones are clearly pretty much every Swordsage capstone maneuver (Tornado Throw, Time Stands Still, Mountain Tombstone Strike, and Feral Death Blow and Five Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike are pretty good too (I still can't believe that they named it that. wow.).

[Bozwevial]

That maneuver name probably scared off everyone who was afraid ToB was too anime.

The problem with Inferno Blast, though, is that it's fire damage, and by this point, nearly everything you meet will have immunity (balors, pit fiends, the tarrasque, certain dragons) or a way to get immunity (pretty much anything that can cast spells, like the other dragons). It's one of the most common energy damages.

[sonofzeal]

Yeah but the problem with that is that the Desert Wind maneuver does that in an AoE, and a Fire Immunity spell from your party solves that problem of killing them. So 90% of the time the Desert Wind capstone is more useful, which is fucking pitiful.

Inferno Blast is 100 damage, yes, but vulnerable to a lot of resistances, has a good chance of affecting multiple party members (and you won't always have Fire Immunity up), is Supernatural and hence allows for SR (I believe), and perhaps worst of all is "Reflex Half".  That means a lot of things are taking half damage and THEN applying resistances, or have Evasion and just laugh at you.  After all, ToB is not really known for its DCs.  There's a few situations where Inferno Blast really shines, and it's excellent against swarms of low/mid level mooks, but fails horribly against near-CR encounters most of the time, which usually have SR, Fire Resistance (or immunity), and solid Ref saves.  At least Strike of Perfect Clarity adds on to weapon damage for an extra boost, and can crit.  SoPC wins hands-down IMO.

[Optimator]

SR would not apply.

[woodenbandman]

True, I forgot about the critical hit potential.

[Bozwevial]

In my opinion, the best capstone maneuvers are Time Stands Still, Tornado Throw, Strike of Righteous Vitality, and (potentially) War Master's Charge. Just my two cents.