Author Topic: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)  (Read 7419 times)

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Tshern

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2008, 07:00:06 PM »
I'm against such shenanigans. My nation(USA)'s leaders love to use the fear tactic.
I find your evaluation of the current situation disturbing. I am not disagreeing with it in its entirety, but I don't think conquering countries is fear tactics.

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skydragonknight

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2008, 07:34:09 PM »
I'm against such shenanigans. My nation(USA)'s leaders love to use the fear tactic.
I find your evaluation of the current situation disturbing. I am not disagreeing with it in its entirety, but I don't think conquering countries is fear tactics.

No, I mean fear tactics on US citizens. Making them believe that "Country X might be planning to attack us someday and we've got to take them out before they do something." to encourage people to back a war over a claim for which they have little to no evidence.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Tshern

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2008, 07:43:28 PM »
True enough. I just can't help wondering how damn easy it is to gain enough support for wars with absolutely no concrete evidence whatsoever. Am I the only one who sees a lot of similarities with Idi Amin's, Stalin's and Hitler's ways of finding justifications to kill stuff?

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altpersona

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2008, 07:51:52 PM »
fear effects stack.
The goal of power is power. - idk
We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow

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Tshern

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2008, 07:57:33 PM »
fear effects stack.
So does stupidity and people have been feeding the loop of international politics for around 1000 years or so.

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altpersona

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2008, 08:07:32 PM »
stupidity has special rules for stacking. its exponential.

international politics as been screwing up regular joe's for thousand's of years. ask paris (the dude)

the day the second country was established, international politics got stupid.
The goal of power is power. - idk
We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow

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Tshern

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2008, 08:14:11 PM »
he day the second country was established, international politics got stupid.
Not quite. There were times when no-one knew of other countries. But I think the turning point of stupidity was the fall of the Roman empire. Definitely not where it all started, but seeing its huge impact on the current world order...

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tarbrush

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2008, 08:26:04 PM »
Take a look at the voting patterns in the Eurovision Song Contest and you will see why this worries me (Hint: Every winner is from an Eastern European country, who are mostly voted for by Eastern European countries, and Ireland has been lucky to even get one point for the past few years).

You realise the Irish started gimping their entries a few years ago, cause winning it and having to host it the next year every time got too expensive, right?

As regards Lisbon Treaty.  It will inevitably do a lot less than it claims to do.  Every time a country gets told to do something they don;t want to do, they'll stonewall, claim it doesn't work like that, and ignore it.  Stability and Growth pact?  Tish!  Implement Directives on time and halfway coherently? Pshaw!  Actually abide by European Court of Justice decisions?  Nonsense!

And really, who cares if there's a bloke running around calling himself the EU President?  He won't do anything and will spend half his time desperately trying to persuade the Foreign Minister and national governments not to directly contradict him whenever he says anything

skydragonknight

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2008, 08:34:14 PM »
True enough. I just can't help wondering how damn easy it is to gain enough support for wars with absolutely no concrete evidence whatsoever. Am I the only one who sees a lot of similarities with Idi Amin's, Stalin's and Hitler's ways of finding justifications to kill stuff?

What's scarier is living in a country run that way. If our next President is the Democratic Candidate Obama things look like they will be *less* crazy and it's much less likely we'll *start* any new wars.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Tshern

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2008, 08:40:50 PM »
What's scarier is living in a country run that way. If our next President is the Democratic Candidate Obama things look like they will be *less* crazy and it's much less likely we'll *start* any new wars.
Well, I don't think he'll be stopping any wars either. American Presidents don't stop wars, because there is always someone stupid enough to turn their brains into car decorations should they advocate peace rather than bombs.

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skydragonknight

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2008, 08:50:32 PM »
What's scarier is living in a country run that way. If our next President is the Democratic Candidate Obama things look like they will be *less* crazy and it's much less likely we'll *start* any new wars.
Well, I don't think he'll be stopping any wars either. American Presidents don't stop wars, because there is always someone stupid enough to turn their brains into car decorations should they advocate peace rather than bombs.

The best I can hope for is that we scale back. We're in a lose/lose situation with Iraq. Staying there just attracts extremists to the area and leaving would very likely result in someone staging a coup or a neighboring country attacking the place.

And if we scale back, we won't be asking for any of you Euros for troops for that particular operation, though we'd still appreciate support in Afganistan. The people who bombed the London subways among other places run their show from there(exclusively from there? I don't know).
« Last Edit: May 25, 2008, 08:53:36 PM by skydragonknight »
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Tshern

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2008, 08:57:52 PM »
Quote
And if we scale back, we won't be asking for any of you Euros for troops for that particular operation, though we'd still appreciate support in Afganistan. The people who bombed the London subways among other places run their show from there(exclusively from there? I don't know).
Funny how so many of the terrorist attacks are done because soldiers from all over the world are taking over their country and still the solution always is raiding their nation again. I mean how many times do we have to learn the lesson? So many of the so called great leaders should only be running the Department of Redundancy Department.

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skydragonknight

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2008, 09:02:24 PM »
Quote
And if we scale back, we won't be asking for any of you Euros for troops for that particular operation, though we'd still appreciate support in Afganistan. The people who bombed the London subways among other places run their show from there(exclusively from there? I don't know).
Funny how so many of the terrorist attacks are done because soldiers from all over the world are taking over their country and still the solution always is raiding their nation again. I mean how many times do we have to learn the lesson? So many of the so called great leaders should only be running the Department of Redundancy Department.

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Tshern

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2008, 09:08:16 PM »
Well, luckily we've all out of eyes and countries are aiming for internal organs already.

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altpersona

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2008, 09:51:07 PM »
international craziness started well before the all of the western roman empire (where as the eastern empire lasted a good bit longer).

the romans, in particular had intense political craziness with everyone with in arm reach of them since forever...

rome / egypt
rome / persia

if mid to northern europe and spain had been organized into proper countries prior to rome's visists, then they would have been nuts aslo. they mostly had the good sense to stay tribal for many decades past the introduction of countries to them.

even so,

we like to forget that most of western europe (not in the arctic circle) was one country until bickering among some idiot kids broke it up into the modern spain/france/germany. kids can break anything.

i will admit, i have not looked up when the various kingdoms in northern europe started, but they were very limited untill after the last period of enlightenments ended. a couple cities does not a country make.

it should also be mentioned that the 'stupid' polish invented pants. if it were not for them we would all be in robes and kilts.

it was also the 'stupid' polish that raided the snot out of western rome and subsequently contributed to its demise, with the help of the arctic circle gang of course...

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We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow

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Prime32

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2008, 12:14:20 PM »
Well, it looks like the result of the Irish referendum is No, to the surprise of every major political party.

They say the European politicians are tearing their hair out and trying to pass the treaty anyway. Britain and a number of other countries are debating having their own referenda.

The ironic thing is, if the Lisbon Treaty were already in effect, Ireland would not be able to refuse a treaty :P
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Apekollapsen

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Re: Lisbon Treaty (EU citizens, please post)
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2008, 05:26:02 PM »
Good for them. Who needs it?