Illithid Savant Information [In Progress]

[Hazren]

possessed the same number of ranks

[Bastian]

possessed the same number of ranks

There is no illithid subtype.

[Lo77o]

possessed the same number of ranks

There is no illithid subtype.

I still think that just playing a changeling is the superior and quickest way into the prestige class.

[Hazren]

There is no illithid subtype.

MINOR RITUALS
Some characters may wish to gain the benefits of a particular
type or subtype of monster, without actually becoming a
specific kind of monster.

Ritual of Association
This minor ritual gives the character a racial subtype or type modifier ...

I'm unaware of any minor ritual that states explicitly that it changes type and type alone that would fullfill the stated purpose of minor rituals in the first sentence that disribes what a minor ritual is intended to do. I would think that type modifier as stated in the Ritual of Association is changing/modifying the type since I can't find any mention of type modifier in any monster manual.

Also as Illithids have variants (Ulithards, Elder Brains, Urophins, Neothelids, along with the entire Thoon entries in MMV)) this could be seen as subtypes.

[sirpercival]

Subraces =/= subtypes.  There are a finite list of types & subtypes: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/typesSubtypes.htm

[Hazren]

Subraces =/= subtypes.  There are a finite list of types & subtypes: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/typesSubtypes.htm

That finite list is missing at least 11 monsters as stated in it's FAQ. While I do use the site for quick reference I always go back to the books if it's important and something I know may be argued.

[sirpercival]

Which monsters have types or subtypes not in the list?

The relevant info, though is that the Type entry under illithids is "Abberation", and does not have the "Illithid" subtype.  Ergo, such a subtype does not exist.

Also, the Illithid Savant does not have a subtype requirement (see, for example, Fiend of Possession).

[awaken DM golem]

[Maat_Mons]

Which monsters have types or subtypes not in the list?

Some subtypes not on that list are dragonblood, dwarf, elf, gnome, halfling, human, orc, and raptoran.  A type not on the list is abomination (not to be confused with aberration).  There may be others, but probably not too many. 

[SorO_Lost]

Which monsters have types or subtypes not in the list?

Some subtypes not on that list are dragonblood, dwarf, elf, gnome, halfling, human, orc, and raptoran.  A type not on the list is abomination (not to be confused with aberration).  There may be others, but probably not too many.  

Anaxim
Size/Type:    Medium Construct (Extraplanar, Lawful)
<snip>
Special Qualities:    Abomination traits, magic immunity, construct traits, fast healing 15, SR 34, damage reduction 10/chaotic and epic and adamantine

Abomination isn't a type. Nor is Elder Evil, True Dragon, Demon, Devil, or Angel. They are functionally a "race" sharing several key traits in common with others like them and that's it. Dragonblooded is a subtype, but it's not public information/part of the SRD. Further given the MMI was printed years before RotD and wasn't part of the original concept.

On short, your argument and related tangents are full of holes & incorrect (good call sirpercival).

[Maat_Mons]

Abomination isn't a type. Nor is Elder Evil, True Dragon, Demon, Devil, or Angel.

Oops, I went from memory on that bit.  Also, angel is a subtype and shouldn't be used as an example loosely-defined monster groupings. 

On short, your argument and related tangents are full of holes & incorrect (good call sirpercival).

[Hazren]

Seems to me  that we are ignoring the part (like my entire second post) that minor rituals can give type and the one I listed would be a good point to work from even if you don't agree with my reading of the text of that specific ritual that giving "type modifier" would be giving the type and not subtype, or that the variants count as subtypes.

[sirpercival]

So what if it gives the type?  The type is aberration, which doesn't get you into IS.  You need to be the RACE, which is a different ritual and comes with hit dice.  Unless you're an awesome changeling...

[SorO_Lost]

Oh, well hell it takes a year for me to be able to recall a name within seconds of seeing. To me you were the other guy.

And is Angel a subtype? ... It is. wtc wotc.

[Hazren]

This minor ritual gives the character a racial subtype or type modifier such as gnoll, goblinoid, orc, or reptilian

Where as a Gnoll is a Humanoid[Type] I can see this the same as a Mindflayer is an Aberation[Type]. If this ritual can change your "type" to Gnoll then why not Mindflayer?

[Bastian]

This minor ritual gives the character a racial subtype or type modifier such as gnoll, goblinoid, orc, or reptilian

Where as a Gnoll is a Humanoid[Type] I can see this the same as a Mindflayer is an Aberation[Type]. If this ritual can change your "type" to Gnoll then why not Mindflayer?

Firstly, the ritual can not change you to the Gnoll type since there is no such thing as the Gnoll type. There is a Gnoll subtype specifically stated in the rules, which the ritual can give you. The ritual can not give you the Illithid type or subtype since neither exists. No matter how much you seem to want the rules to be different, they will not change.

Seems to me  that we are ignoring the part (like my entire second post) that minor rituals can give type and the one I listed would be a good point to work from even if you don't agree with my reading of the text of that specific ritual that giving "type modifier" would be giving the type and not subtype, or that the variants count as subtypes.

I'm not sure what in your second post is supposed to help your argument. Even if the ritual gives type, it does not help anything since there is no Illithid type or subtype. As for "your reading" that illithids have a subtype because there are variants, unless they are stated to have a subtype, no such subtype exists. As someone already said subrace does not equal subtype.

[Hazren]

This minor ritual gives the character a racial subtype or type modifier such as gnoll, goblinoid, orc, or reptilian

Where as a Gnoll is a Humanoid[Type] I can see this the same as a Mindflayer is an Aberation[Type]. If this ritual can change your "type" to Gnoll then why not Mindflayer?

Firstly, the ritual can not change you to the Gnoll type since there is no such thing as the Gnoll type. There is a Gnoll subtype specifically stated in the rules, which the ritual can give you. The ritual can not give you the Illithid type or subtype since neither exists. No matter how much you seem to want the rules to be different, they will not change.

I must have missed that. Could you tell me where to find Gnoll listed as a subtype? I only found it listed under Humanoid which is a Type. As far as I can tell Gnoll is a race listed under Humanoid.

[Bastian]

This minor ritual gives the character a racial subtype or type modifier such as gnoll, goblinoid, orc, or reptilian

Where as a Gnoll is a Humanoid[Type] I can see this the same as a Mindflayer is an Aberation[Type]. If this ritual can change your "type" to Gnoll then why not Mindflayer?

Firstly, the ritual can not change you to the Gnoll type since there is no such thing as the Gnoll type. There is a Gnoll subtype specifically stated in the rules, which the ritual can give you. The ritual can not give you the Illithid type or subtype since neither exists. No matter how much you seem to want the rules to be different, they will not change.

I must have missed that. Could you tell me where to find Gnoll listed as a subtype? I only found it listed under Humanoid which is a Type. As far as I can tell Gnoll is a race listed under Humanoid.

Their monster manual entry. The same is true for any race with a subtype. It is always listed right next to their type at the top of the entry. Here's a reproduction of the beginning of their entry.

Gnoll
Medium Humaniod (Gnoll)
Hit Dice:...

[Hazren]

This minor ritual gives the character a racial subtype or type modifier such as gnoll, goblinoid, orc, or reptilian

Where as a Gnoll is a Humanoid[Type] I can see this the same as a Mindflayer is an Aberation[Type]. If this ritual can change your "type" to Gnoll then why not Mindflayer?

Firstly, the ritual can not change you to the Gnoll type since there is no such thing as the Gnoll type. There is a Gnoll subtype specifically stated in the rules, which the ritual can give you. The ritual can not give you the Illithid type or subtype since neither exists. No matter how much you seem to want the rules to be different, they will not change.

I must have missed that. Could you tell me where to find Gnoll listed as a subtype? I only found it listed under Humanoid which is a Type. As far as I can tell Gnoll is a race listed under Humanoid.

Their monster manual entry. The same is true for any race with a subtype. It is always listed right next to their type at the top of the entry. Here's a reproduction of the beginning of their entry.

Gnoll
Medium Humaniod (Gnoll)
Hit Dice:...

Interesting. I used page 4 and 5 of the MM and Gnoll is listed under Humanoid the same way Mind Flayer is listed under Aberation. I see your point about how it's listed in the table entry.

[jojolagger]

I have a question regarding the acquire X abilities.

Specifically, did you notice you don't benefit from acquire X per Y levels of Illithid savant, but per brain? (I wish I was making this up. It's somewhat sane if you read it the conservative way, but it is easy to argue RAW is per brain.)

Also, with the spells regeneration and delay death, you can eat your own brain. Because why not?