Author Topic: Need help with gestalt Druid 5//???.  (Read 5150 times)

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Surreal

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Re: Need help with gestalt Druid 5//???.
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2009, 06:19:01 AM »
Am am quite curious about the Incarnum classes. How well would such a class complement a druid gestalt? Would taking Totemist, for example, be superior to Warshaper, Natures Warrior, or Master of Many Forms?

Currently I'm thinking of a build like Druid 5//LA race +4/Totemist 1 and continuing druid//totemist levels. Is this any better than Druid 5//Totemist 5, or Druid 5//LA Race +4/Monk 1, continuing Druid//Prestige class levels? All of these combinations would probably include the "Druidic Avenger" sub level and "Extra Rages" feat.

Totemist would add quite a bit of punch to the build. I would pick Druid 5/Totemist 5 as that gets you the chakra binds. If you're throwing templates on that side, you will want Totemist 2 at minimum. For something a bit different, consider Incarnate instead. Lots of new options there, more defenses, and silly tanking with Vitality Belt. Add to your wildshaping versatility with a couple feats; you can pick up Aberration, Dragon and Cold Magical Beasts (huzzah cryohydras!).
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 06:21:50 AM by Surreal »
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Straw_Man

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Re: Need help with gestalt Druid 5//???.
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2009, 06:21:38 AM »

  Can you give an idea of how powerful you want to be? A simple Mongrelfolk with Mineral Warrior template gives you +8 Con but -2 Wis and Int and Cha in the drain. If you don't want the Wis penalty and +1 LA from Mineral Warrior you can do Dragonborn Mongrelfolk for +6 Con -2 Dex.

  Add in some Monk which gives Power Attack (yes its weak, but synergizes well with Druid) and you can go Fist of the Forest at level 6  which adds your Con to AC as well  :D

  Druid 5//Mineral warrior/Monk 1(Overwhelming Attack)//Ranger 3
  All the druid stuff, with a slightly buffed Animal Companion. Better BAB by one, more hp because of M.War. and Rgr HD, Track, TWF, Unarmed Strike, Power Attack and Wis to AC. At level 6 you take FoF and your adding your Con to AC, including your WS Con. So yeah, your a frigging tank.

  You can sub out ranger for anything with good BAB really. If you like Ranger see if you can sub out TWF with Multiattack which will help you a lot more in WS. And if you like Stunning Fist just use standard monk and pick up PA as a feat at 3rd level.

  Keep in mind that a combat Druid is weaker than a spellcasting Druid, but this will be fun since it's decent damage, high AC, you still have spells and you can be a karate chopping bear!

  Though I think a Druid 5//Pixie 4/Barbarian 1 is way more crazy fu :pn Invisible flying bears!
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Straw_Man

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Re: Need help with gestalt Druid 5//???.
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2009, 06:23:58 AM »

  Huh, just read the bit about ignoring alignment restrictions. Drop Ranger from my earlier build and take Lion Barbarian. Add Rage and Pounce!
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

woodenbandman

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Re: Need help with gestalt Druid 5//???.
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2009, 11:20:56 AM »
Totemist/Druid is pretty sweet, especially when you're in plant form, because you don't get a lot of soulmeld overlap there. You have no need to shape the ones that give you natural attacks, between bite of the.... and superior magic fang, so what you need to do is shape the ones that add fire, cold, acid, etc. damage and boost your defenses. Also, in wildshape, you have no body slots filled (unless you use a wildling clasp), which solves one of the main problems of the totemist.

Give it a try.

pfooti

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Re: Need help with gestalt Druid 5//???.
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2009, 11:59:47 AM »
You want to look at ways to just flesh yourself out mechanically with the gestalt system. Druids get 4 skill points and a moderately interesting skill list, medium BAB, and 2 good saves. Adding a class with a good reflex save and either full BAB or more/better skills is a possibility here.

The other thing you want to think about is gestalting in a way that synergizes with your Druid class.Monk synergizes very well for a short while at least. A few levels works - getting evasion, wis to AC, flurry of blows and improved grapple is so good that many martial druids dip a level or two of monk, especially ones that plan on being grapplers. Beyond monk-2, though, the relative payoff wanes. The next two obvious choices are Psychic Warrior and an Incarnum class. Psywar gives more feats, and some really useful powers that you can't get otherwise -grip of iron is a great boost to your grappling, for example. It doesn't, however, boost your reflex save or BAB, though. Talashatora is a great feat that makes monk / psywar pretty sexy.

As a druid in wildshape, you're not likely to care so much about BAB either. Most druids opt for the claw-claw-bite routine rather than iterative attacks. So it's okay to stick with the medium BAB.

To that end, I strongly suggest the Totemist. It's an excellent class and synergizes VERY well with the druid. You can select soulmelds that further increase your AC and improve other abilities as well. You can gain even more natural attacks, boost your grapple into the stratosphere, gain what amounts to a constrict attack, or just go to town with skill bonuses. Plus, as mentioned earlier, you don't have to worry about stuff like magic items getting in the way of your wildshaping or chakra binds.

So, overall, I'd suggest you go monk 2 / totemist 18 // druid 20. Honestly, though, once you get to around totemist 6, you could probably start looking for another class if you're really *optimizing*.

If you can slap vow of poverty on top of that, you'll be able to kick even more butt.

Ithamar

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Re: Need help with gestalt Druid 5//???.
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2009, 09:14:04 PM »
Perhaps consider an Afflicted Were-Dire Badger (3 HD, +2 LA) on one side and use the PHB II Shapeshifting Druid on the other.  You'll get the Dire Badger rage, but without the accompanying spellcasting restriction like barbarian rage, and no duration like a barbarian's rage either.  Pretty wacky, but could be fun.

Or just do something that will get +4 BAB in the first 4 levels so that your 5th level can either be Fist of the Forest or Warshaper.
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Madwand

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Re: Need help with gestalt Druid 5//???.
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2009, 10:52:09 PM »
Ok, thanks everyone for your great suggestions. I've been talking to the DM and I have more information. First, we aren't using fractional BAB/saves. Second, I received permission to take a wingless version of the half-celestial template for +3 LA. Third, and much worse news, this party is severely under-optimized! The main damage dealers are an archer who only gets 1 attack/round at 1d8+5d6+12, and an evocation specialized wizard. This means that at DM request I have to "underoptimize", i.e. expected damage has to go way down. I suggested two changes that would accomplish this and were well-received: using the PHBII "Shapeshift" variant (painful), and an emphasis on tripping instead of damage dealing. So my current thought for a build is as follows:

Human Shapeshift Druid 5//Wingless half-celestial 3/Wolf totem barbarian (UA) 2

Feats: Possibly Jotenbrud, Power attack, Track, Improved trip (free)

Future classes: Druid of course, and possibly fighter, warshaper, or barbarian on the other side (not sure what would work best).

Future feats: Possibly wolf berserker, Extra rage, Combat reflexes.

So I would like to hear any thoughts on this build, or if there is anything I can do to improve the basic concept. A tripping druid is probably a little unusual but it should work. I estimate a +18 to trip if I put my 14 stat in strength, or +20 if I put my 17+1 stat point (not sure which I should try). Con gets third priority and probably my 8th level stat point. Ferocious Slayer form at 8th level gives another +6 to trip, not bad.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 10:54:30 PM by Madwand »

Straw_Man

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Re: Need help with gestalt Druid 5//???.
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2009, 11:13:37 PM »

  Uggh. No offense but thats severely underoptimised for a gestalt game. But yeah, not sure why you would want to go Celestial with or without wings, Sorceror with Celestial heritage feats work better mechanically.

  I'm not sure what to say, there's probably ways to improve this, but that would again optimise you beyond your party. As it stands, your way more powerful that the archer in your party even saddled with the half Celestial LA.
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Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

ksbsnowowl

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Re: Need help with gestalt Druid 5//???.
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2009, 01:21:05 PM »
Ouch, you're giving up your animal companion.  That hurts.

Fleshing out what pfooti said about fleshing out your druid mechanics, I've always found Rogue (or Scout) to be a great compliment to Druid. 

- You get lots of skill points.  Add wildshape (or shapeshift) and you are an awesome party reconnaissance scout.

- You've got all good saves.  If you go Scout, you even get a bonus to Fort on top of having 3 great saves.

- You get sneak attack.  You have several touch spells (flame blade, produce flame, other spells from Spell Compendium) that work great for sneak attacking.  You have (or had...) a built-in flanker via your animal companion.

OR

- You get skirmish.  It's much easier to trigger than SA, and you can shape into forms that get pounce, allowing you to get full-attacks of skirmish.

These are simple, they work great, and they are probably a touch less powerful than totemist or psy warrior, which will help you stay sub-optimized.

Since you are losing your animal companion due to Shapeshift, you could look into the Summon Elemental reserve feat from Complete Mage to give you a flank-buddy, if you go the Rogue route.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 01:22:57 PM by ksbsnowowl »
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Re: Need help with gestalt Druid 5//???.
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2009, 02:54:39 PM »
Be a Monster of Legend (MM3) =d
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ksbsnowowl

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Re: Need help with gestalt Druid 5//???.
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2009, 03:35:05 PM »
Be a Monster of Legend (MMII) =d
Fixed that for you.
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