Need help with gestalt Druid 5//???.

[Madwand]

I'm starting a new 5th level character for a gestalt campaign, and I could use some help fleshing out ideas.

Some relevant information:

Class: Druid 5//??? (this is where I need help)

Stats: 14, 10, 13, 12, 13, 17

Alignment: Probably NG

Wealth: 9000 gp

House rules:
Maximum hitpoints
LA only counts on one side of the gestalt!

Books: Almost all (even homebrewed is possible, but I would prefer to keep it to published WotC books)

Banned books: Book of Exalted Deeds, Book of Vile Darkness, Libris Mortis, and Book of Nine Swords

Setting: Faerun, although the campaign also has links to Eberron and a couple homebrewed worlds.

Party role: Druid spells, healing, outdoor survival/tracking, party tank, "predator".


I've read the Druid's Handbook (all of them!) so I'm quite familiar with how to create a good druid. What I need help with are the possibilities provided here by the gestalt rules and house rules. I'm not sure what to put on the other half of the gestalt.
For classes, I'm considering Barbarian (Max HP here is nice), Ranger (feats, helps qualify for PrCs), Nature's Warrior, Warshaper, and Master of Many Forms. For what LA to use, I have no idea. I've looked at Woodling and Half-celestial, but I'm really not sure. Any ideas would be great! Thanks!

[Emy]

Well the 17 will obviously be Wis, the 14 should be Con. The rest, I'm less sure of.

Since LA only counts on one side of the gestalt, why not take an exotic race? Like a Mercury Dragon, or a Gravetouched Ghoul?

If you need a lot of power, you could always go completely straight Druid//Trumpet Archon using the Trumpet Archon monster class from Savage Species.

[wO-_-OdrOw]

Dark White Dragonspawn Feral Phrenic Venerable Kobold Druid 5?

[Madwand]

Ok, these are good ideas, however I should give a bit more information. First, this is an "RP-heavy" campaign. For character creation, I assume this means that I should keep things at least somewhat simple... To just one template/exotic race preferably, or 2 if they make a lot of sense together. This is a game with a new group, and I don't want to give the DM a heart attack! Second, I'm going to be writing a good background for this character (currently, he came from a barbarian tribe) so I want to make sure that whatever template I give him, it makes sense with that background and it isn't obvious that I'm just making stuff up to get a more powerful character. Remember min/maxing doesn't do any good if the character gets immediately banned! I also probably shouldn't take any races or templates that will make roleplaying harder than normal.

Half-races (like half-celestial) aren't too hard to justify, which is why I've been looking in that direction. I plan on using wildshaping a lot, so I want to make sure that the race works well with that in mind. Which special abilities do I get to keep? Anyway, thanks for the ideas so far, and I'm still interested in hearing more!

[Emy]

Perhaps a little more information on the backstory would be good, if you're writing the backstory before building the character.

I don't see any reason a Trumpet Archon couldn't be the celestial protector of a barbarian tribe though. That would explain why he's NG instead of LG, too. His time among mortals made him realize that doing good is more important than following the law. This is why his very lawful Archon family never sends him letters.

[Lycanthromancer]

What about a wildshaping ranger/master of many forms//druid/random divine casting PrC?

Ranger

A ranger might forgo training in weapon combat in exchange for the ability to take animal form and move swiftly through the woodlands.
Gain

Wild shape (as druid; Small or Medium animals only), fast movement (as barbarian).
Lose

Combat style, improved combat style, combat style mastery.

[Madwand]

I like the Trumpet Archon idea, although I would usually consider Cleric to gestalt with it rather than Druid. And the backstory idea would probably work. The backstory is fairly flexible, I just want to make sure whatever template I take can fit in with a decently written druid backstory. For now though, I think I would be better off taking something with less LA - half-celestial + various classes and prestige classes can probably help me more than 20 levels of trumpet archon, especially considering I'll be wildshaped most of the time.

Anyway, I just want to be aware of my options, so thanks for the ideas! I'd like to hear more, though.

The wildshaping ranger idea is interesting, I wonder if the alt Druid shapeshift ability stacks with the ranger wildshape?

[Lycanthromancer]

The two forms of wild shape aren't identical, so they would likely stack. Plus, if you PrC out on druid, you get better wild shaping via MoMF anyway. Of course, make sure you get regular druid wild shaping into animals, so you're not stuck as Small and Medium forms.

Now we just need to find you a good druid PrC (disregarding the druid's wild shape, of course, since it's somewhat redundant with MoMF).

[Shadowhunter]

Well, going from Druid to Cleric of Obad-Hai aint too far of a leap
So Druid 5/Cleric 5. Plenty of power.
I'd say that should be doable, depending on exactly how strict you wish to interpretate the actual difference between the two.

Remember that you can only have 1 PrC "active" at any specific level, so you can't progress it like this:
Druid 5/Stormcaster 3//Wildshape Ranger 5/MMoF 3, since at lvl 6,7 and 8 you take a PrC on both sides.
Which is forbidden.
Something to keep in mind.
If going with a wildshape ranger, that's 5 levels. And then at least 7 levels of MMoF. Going straight, this would mean that any eventual PrC on the Druid side would have to wait until level 13, which only leave 8 levels to work with. You might aswell take a few levels in Warshaper whilst you're at it, then any Druid PrC is pretty much redundant.
But since Druids don't need to take PrC's to be good, I fail to see how it is any major issue

[Emy]

For now though, I think I would be better off taking something with less LA - half-celestial + various classes and prestige classes can probably help me more than 20 levels of trumpet archon, especially considering I'll be wildshaped most of the time.

So...

Being wildshaped most of the time with Natural Spell combined with HD+2 cleric spellcasting is undesirable?

If you want to go in a different direction, what about a Druid//Factotum? I really like the Factotum class, and you can swap your divine spellcasting stat (mostly) to Int with a feat from Dragonlance: Legends of the Twins. I think it's called Academic Priest.

Out of curiosity, are you using the fractional BAB and saves variants?

[Madwand]

HD+2 cleric spell casting is a good point  It is very desirable, although more so for a "spellcaster" specialized druid. This druid will be mostly a "tank" fighting druid, and so I am more concerned about hit points (I may even take Con over Wis, if i get the +4 to both that half-celestial gives me) and fighting ability over spellcasting. From experience, I know that druid spells are generally more than enough to complement a fighting druid; while having cleric spells too is awesome, I suspect that the emphasis of the character would be changed too much. And, oh yeah, the aforementioned heart attack the DM would have when I came in with a 7th level spellcaster!

I don't know yet if we're doing fractional BAB/saves, I suspect we are not.

Factotum would be a lot of fun, I'd like to play one some time, although I think levels in a more "fighter" kind of class would be more appropriate for this character.

[Negative Zero]

Factotum is a bit Int-y for a Druid gestalt. If you're looking for Wis synergy, you could look at Psychic Warrior. I don't have enough PsyWar experience to know if that's a good idea, though.

[Lycanthromancer]

He'd probably be better of as a totemist than psychic warrior. Yes, psywars get psionic manifesting and bonus feats, but there's way too much overlap in the base chassis, and psywars aren't powerful enough manifesters to make gestalting with a druid worthwhile.

Ardent, on the other hand...

[edit] Even so, I would go with either wild shaping ranger/MoMF, or totemist. Perhaps totem rager?

[Emy]

Factotum is a bit Int-y for a Druid gestalt. If you're looking for Wis synergy, you could look at Psychic Warrior. I don't have enough PsyWar experience to know if that's a good idea, though.

Well, that's why I mentioned Academic Priest. To make the Druid also be Int-y.

[skydragonknight]

Haha. Lycan beat me to the idea by a few minutes, but he only posted half of what I was thinking: Monk 1/Psywar 1-19 with Tashalatora from Secrets of Sarlona to unarmed damage, AC(or speed;I forget) and flurry of blows(including greater flurry) with a psionic class: psychic warrior. Wisdom based casting/manifesting. Nice long duration or swift action buffs. And a good number of natural attacks to capitalize on all your buffs.

[Madwand]

Am am quite curious about the Incarnum classes. How well would such a class complement a druid gestalt? Would taking Totemist, for example, be superior to Warshaper, Natures Warrior, or Master of Many Forms?

Currently I'm thinking of a build like Druid 5//LA race +4/Totemist 1 and continuing druid//totemist levels. Is this any better than Druid 5//Totemist 5, or Druid 5//LA Race +4/Monk 1, continuing Druid//Prestige class levels? All of these combinations would probably include the "Druidic Avenger" sub level and "Extra Rages" feat.

[Negative Zero]

Factotum is a bit Int-y for a Druid gestalt. If you're looking for Wis synergy, you could look at Psychic Warrior. I don't have enough PsyWar experience to know if that's a good idea, though.

Well, that's why I mentioned Academic Priest. To make the Druid also be Int-y.

That's what I get for not reading all the posts above mine. I've been wanting to find that feat, too.

My fault, and thank you.

[Emy]

Haha. Lycan beat me to the idea by a few minutes, but he only posted half of what I was thinking: Monk 1/Psywar 1-19 with Tashalatora from Secrets of Sarlona to unarmed damage, AC(or speed;I forget) and flurry of blows(including greater flurry) with a psionic class: psychic warrior. Wisdom based casting/manifesting. Nice long duration or swift action buffs. And a good number of natural attacks to capitalize on all your buffs.

How would you fit monk in a neutral good build? Is there a variant for that?

The only one that comes to mind is Chaos Monk from Dragon Magazine, but that's no good -- it's chaotic only.

[Madwand]

How would you fit monk in a neutral good build? Is there a variant for that?

The only one that comes to mind is Chaos Monk from Dragon Magazine, but that's no good -- it's chaotic only.

Forgot to mention -- the DM doesn't care about class alignment restrictions. Even if that were not the case and I wanted to play Druid/Monk, LN would be an option.

Currently I'm taking a close look at an Azurin Druidic Avenger 20//Half-Celestial 4/Totemist 3/Totem Rager 10/Totemist 3 option. Not sure if it would be a good build yet but it seems interesting.

[Emy]

This is a Dragon Magazine variant, but what about a level or two of Martial Monk? It's basically like regular monk, except slightly worse skills, and you choose monk bonus feats from the fighter bonus feat list. Since monk bonus feats specifically ignore prerequisites, you could pick up Weapon Supremacy (Bite) for while you're wildshaped. Of course, it gives the normal monk stuff like Wis to AC too.