Author Topic: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)  (Read 78958 times)

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Sunic_Flames

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2009, 10:04:29 AM »
Actually the max is 16 then. Even better. Remember, this isn't for house rules.
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Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2009, 04:10:22 AM »
Forcecage.
You counter with abundant step
Forcecage 2 (barred version.
Wait... you can only dimension door once a day?  I'm so sorry.  Here, let me wall of stone you some privacy.  I'll leave you a little crack room for air.
Oh, what's this?  It appears my decanter of endless water might be spilling.  Can monks breathe water?  I honestly don't remember.  Oh, no, wait.  It's a moot point.  Silly me.  That's oil.  And an orb of fire spell.  No, wait, it's actually an acid fog.  My, my, I must be going senile.  I can't actually remember how I'm killing you.
Oh well.  You're just a monk.  It's not like it matters.
I was not just any monk, I was a naked, anti-caster monk who liked to 'share spaces' with those casters  :smirk. And my monk would have been fine with all of those counters and able to get out of them and continue to :fo up those blasters.

and Eldariel actually his breath didn't smell (RAW mechanically, not just in RP) due to the fact that he didn't eat or salivate and ate a mint once  :lol ... and his touch AC was reaching 50. And the DM had to except this crazy build since it was all core (contingency craziness would never have gotten past his keen eye)

think about it: your run the mill BBEG wizard will probably not be expecting a monk, of all things.  who would play one?  :D
Exactly  :lmao

and killing the 1000monks in 15minutes actually made me laugh out loud.  :clap
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 07:00:43 AM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
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[/Spoiler]

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Emy

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2009, 04:15:57 AM »
Forcecage.
You counter with abundant step
Forcecage 2 (barred version.
Wait... you can only dimension door once a day?  I'm so sorry.  Here, let me wall of stone you some privacy.  I'll leave you a little crack room for air.
Oh, what's this?  It appears my decanter of endless water might be spilling.  Can monks breathe water?  I honestly don't remember.  Oh, no, wait.  It's a moot point.  Silly me.  That's oil.  And an orb of fire spell.  No, wait, it's actually an acid fog.  My, my, I must be going senile.  I can't actually remember how I'm killing you.
Oh well.  You're just a monk.  It's not like it matters.
I was not just any monk, I was a naked, anti-caster monk who liked to 'share spaces' with those casters  :smirk. And my monk would have been fine with all of those counters and able to get out of them and continue to :fo up the caster.

and Eldariel actually his breath didn't smell (RAW mechanically, not just in RP) due to the fact that he didn't eat or salivate and ate a mint once  :lol ... and his touch AC was reaching 50. And the DM had to except this crazy build since it was all core (contingency craziness would never have gotten past his keen eye)

think about it: your run the mill BBEG wizard will probably not be expecting a monk, of all things.  who would play one?  :D
Exactly  :lmao

and killing the 1000monks in 15minutes actually made me laugh out loud.  :clap

Mind posting this core naked anti-caster monk?

This thread is hilarious. Most of it intentionally.

Straw_Man

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2009, 04:18:06 AM »

  I'd be very, very impressed by a monk core build that can go toe to toe with any caster and wasn't houseruled. Could you post the build PlzBreak?
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2009, 04:25:07 AM »
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 04:27:21 AM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
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shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
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Vasja

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2009, 05:17:39 AM »
I was not just any monk, I was a naked, anti-caster monk who liked to 'share spaces' with those casters  :smirk. And my monk would have been fine with all of those counters and able to get out of them and continue to :fo up the caster.

and Eldariel actually his breath didn't smell (RAW mechanically, not just in RP) due to the fact that he didn't eat or salivate and ate a mint once  :lol ... and his touch AC was reaching 50. And the DM had to except this crazy build since it was all core (contingency craziness would never have gotten past his keen eye)

Um... Bullshit? Good luck doing ANYTHING against a caster in core. You should probably explain HOW you are getting past all those defenses. Oh wait, you can't. I even call bullshit on your 50 touch AC: 10 + 13 Dex + 9 Wis + 5 Monk = Good Luck. And that shit assumes a 20 in dexterity and 18 in wisdom. Have fun with your 8 Strength and 6 Con. Must be great being a level 20 character with a base HP of 54.

And when you get done making your flurry of whiffs, be sure to come around and meet Mr. solid fog and Mrs. cloudkill. Oh, you said you wanted to grapple? Have you heard of freedom of movement? Apparently not.

Sucks if I'm being an arse, but its 3:30 AM and I hate stupidity.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 05:41:08 AM by Vasja »

Anklebite

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2009, 06:07:20 AM »
Guess which one the wizard is.

C'mon, guess.

....I can't actually tell....

did you mean for it to be a persist melee wizard, or are the smiths the attack of the NI clones?
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JaronK

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2009, 06:21:26 AM »
Um... Bullshit? Good luck doing ANYTHING against a caster in core. You should probably explain HOW you are getting past all those defenses.

Wait, did he specify which kind of caster?  If it was a Sorcerer I could see it... the Sorc might just have a bad selection of spells and not be very smart.  I don't normally buy it from Wizards that are actually played appropriately though... they are, after all, super geniuses.

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2009, 07:29:37 AM »
Guess which one the wizard is.

C'mon, guess.
The one who fights a hundred-odd monks at the same time and ends up winning anyway, while looking cool and making the monks look like idiots. Just my guess.
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Midnight_v

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2009, 10:33:47 AM »
Guess which one the wizard is.

C'mon, guess.
The one who fights a hundred-odd monks at the same time and ends up winning anyway, while looking cool and making the monks look like idiots. Just my guess.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #50 on: February 01, 2009, 01:48:43 PM »
Guess which one the wizard is.

C'mon, guess.

....I can't actually tell....

did you mean for it to be a persist melee wizard, or are the smiths the attack of the NI clones?

Who is wearing the wizard's dress robes? Who has an astral projection doing his fighting? Who can fly under his own power?

And on the other side of the coin? Who's the one that performs a vastly-overrated Quivering Palm attack (that fails miserably, I might add)?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 01:52:32 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Midnight_v

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2009, 01:58:33 PM »
Guess which one the wizard is.

C'mon, guess.

....I can't actually tell....

did you mean for it to be a persist melee wizard, or are the smiths the attack of the NI clones?

Who is wearing the wizard's dress robes? Who has an astral projection doing his fighting? Who can fly under his own power?

And on the other side of the coin? Who's the one that performs a vastly-overrated Quivering Palm attack (that fails miserably, I might add)?
:lmao

No really
 :lol  :lmao  :lol
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2009, 02:02:19 PM »
Not to mention the question: Who is it that manages to beat the living **** out of 100+ "equal-CR" critters and makes it out alive?

[edit] Also, what about simulacrum or ice assassin + the Eye or Hand of Vecna? And since 'creature flesh' has no gp value, you can pull this combo off with Eschew Materials.  :evillaugh
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 02:13:12 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Sunic_Flames

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2009, 02:28:24 PM »
You know, I met a Monk who claimed to have a touch AC over 50. And by met I mean slaughtered in 2 hits (he had like 10% health left after the first hit).

Know why that was? The player didn't even understand the difference between normal AC and touch AC, and yet was trying to question my mechanical expertise, as if he were somehow more qualified. Now granted, it is to be expected that the most probable motivation for such claims is sheer incompetence and ineptitude leading to various cataclysmic misconceptions, however it is infinitely more hilarious when this is proven right to everyone.

10 bucks says the clown is either using VoP and doesn't know the difference between AC and touch AC or is using max turtling but still expecting to hit with his Flurry of Misses for Piddly Shit.

Even a bad Sorcerer could own that thing. Only medium saves and low HP. Hit it with a Fireball. First time it fails a save it dies. Also, it works on as many Monks as can fit into the area. Which is 40 if we're just talking ground level. 160, if talking about it in three dimensions. That's a lot of free XP and loot.
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There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2009, 02:31:40 PM »
Heh, the fun part with these turtles is that they actually think they can get close enough to the caster to initiate melee. And even if that were the case, they would still have to make sure that what they do actually affects the caster in a meaningful way.

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woodenbandman

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2009, 02:42:56 PM »
At least they make a decent entry to Sacred Fist/Enlightened Fist. I had a VoP Monk2/Spirit Shaman4 going into spirit shaman, and he ended up being an antagonist. The PCs had a tough time hitting his 26 AC, and he had Combat Expertise. Had I made him Feral he'd have had AC approaching 40 when he total def'd at level 6.

So it's not particularly hard to boost your AC into the motherfucking stratosphere, but the real question is: Why would you? It's boring. His main attack form was touches of golden ice and a few weak attacks. His main role was the weak heal bitch.

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2009, 02:49:08 PM »
Ah, yes, AC does matter to a certain extend at lower levels, I agree. Focusing on it too much tends to reduce your offensive capabilities quite drastically though, which means your not as useful a contributor to the killing of monsters as other party members, even if you manage to survive every combat without much damage...

But then again, that's pretty much what you said, glad we're in agreement :P
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2009, 05:29:31 PM »
And even if that were the case, they would still have to make sure that what they do actually affects the caster in a meaningful way.
Any attack that hits someone who uses a d4 for HP is meaningful :p

At least they make a decent entry to Sacred Fist/Enlightened Fist.
Depending on your build, a monk may make a better dip than a fighter to acquire feats too.

Lost's guide to Monks
[spoiler]
1. Focus on your role
Monk's are very skilled movement experts, earning up to a +60ft. enhancement to their speed. They have the following movement related class skills as well; balance, climb, hide, jump, move silently, swim, and tumble.

So the first step is to recommend starting with at least 16 int so you can take the maximum ranks in each of those skills. Secondly, you must pick up the Winged template in Savage Species. A monk that cannot fly is not a master of moving around. Also did in the MiC under the set stuff, there is a crystal that gives a +5 moral bonus to speed, you can use it with your bracers of armor. Pick up a ring of freedom of movement later on and you're set.

2. AC, and more AC.
It is very important to to have high AC as a monk, however this is harder than it looks since monks cannot use greater mage armor, or even a +5 padded shirt without facing some form of loss to their AC. Due to this, you'll use bracers of armor a lot. The ideal monk uses rings of deflection, amulets of natural armor, bracers of armor, and +5 defending weapons in each hand.

3. Planning
As a monk, you have to get into the mind set required to play one. As practice I suggest setting your watch to chime hourly, on each chime you should note all your exits and how to get to them. As a monk you must always know which way to run and how to get around monsters, traps, guards, ninja-doors, and dinosaurs so your movement is never hampered.

4. Initiative is your greatest foe.
You should buy a +1 eager warning initiative fingerless black glove and focus on increasing your dex. Consider hiring a local farmer to march fifty feet in front of you so the encounter's surprise round is spent killing him.

5. Bringing it together.
With your high initiative, high AC, and even higher movement you should have no trouble running away from fights. At later levels due to FoM, flight, and a good swim check you can even use waterfalls to your advantage. If you pick up a cloak of sandswimming from the sandstorm book you can even use the ground as a path if need be. Always remember to tumble to prevent AoOs when required, and never, I repeat never fight anything not worn out, dirt covered, old, and carrying a pitchfork.

6. Death.
Death happens, consider playing a walker of the waste next time to prevent this.[/spoiler]
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2009, 05:35:31 PM »
Epic win is epic :lmao
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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You caught a fish.  It was awesome.   :lol

Soda

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2009, 05:37:40 PM »
Lost's guide to Monks
[spoiler]
1. Focus on your role
Monk's are very skilled movement experts, earning up to a +60ft. enhancement to their speed. They have the following movement related class skills as well; balance, climb, hide, jump, move silently, swim, and tumble.

So the first step is to recommend starting with at least 16 int so you can take the maximum ranks in each of those skills. Secondly, you must pick up the Winged template in Savage Species. A monk that cannot fly is not a master of moving around. Also did in the MiC under the set stuff, there is a crystal that gives a +5 moral bonus to speed, you can use it with your bracers of armor. Pick up a ring of freedom of movement later on and you're set.

2. AC, and more AC.
It is very important to to have high AC as a monk, however this is harder than it looks since monks cannot use greater mage armor, or even a +5 padded shirt without facing some form of loss to their AC. Due to this, you'll use bracers of armor a lot. The ideal monk uses rings of deflection, amulets of natural armor, bracers of armor, and +5 defending weapons in each hand.

3. Planning
As a monk, you have to get into the mind set required to play one. As practice I suggest setting your watch to chime hourly, on each chime you should note all your exits and how to get to them. As a monk you must always know which way to run and how to get around monsters, traps, guards, ninja-doors, and dinosaurs so your movement is never hampered.

4. Initiative is your greatest foe.
You should buy a +1 eager warning initiative fingerless black glove and focus on increasing your dex. Consider hiring a local farmer to march fifty feet in front of you so the encounter's surprise round is spent killing him.

5. Bringing it together.
With your high initiative, high AC, and even higher movement you should have no trouble running away from fights. At later levels due to FoM, flight, and a good swim check you can even use waterfalls to your advantage. If you pick up a cloak of sandswimming from the sandstorm book you can even use the ground as a path if need be. Always remember to tumble to prevent AoOs when required, and never, I repeat never fight anything not worn out, dirt covered, old, and carrying a pitchfork.

6. Death.
Death happens, consider playing a walker of the waste next time to prevent this.[/spoiler]
I fucking lol'd at that. Hilarious.