Author Topic: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)  (Read 78957 times)

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Cannotthink

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #300 on: July 20, 2010, 03:23:56 PM »
Just so I have this correct, our wizard friend has prepared...

3 cantrips per day
Launch Boltx3

1+1 1st level spells per day
True Strikex3
Silent Image
Color Spray
Sleep

At least that's what I've gathered from his strategy posted so far.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #301 on: July 20, 2010, 03:42:07 PM »
Just so I have this correct, our wizard friend has prepared...

3 cantrips per day
Launch Boltx3

1+1 1st level spells per day
True Strikex3
Silent Image
Color Spray
Sleep

At least that's what I've gathered from his strategy posted so far.
Don't be obtuse. It's not like everyone who posts is talking about the same wizard.

Any wizard I'd make would definitely have a Silent Image prepped and some kind of mount, though. I think mules are the best for the cost. At 8 gp, any 1st level character can afford one without gimping themselves. Acid Flasks are also pretty cheap (especially if you craft them yourself), and I like to buy several of those and almost always prep Launch Item (a cantrip that lets me throw them at medium range) at least once.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #302 on: July 20, 2010, 03:45:42 PM »
Look, if we're going to keep discussing this, let's agree on some ground rules, each make up a level 1 wizard/fighter, and compare afterwards.

Any "class x" accusations will be settled by building a character of the opposing class to use the same tactic.  If their effectiveness is the same, it's a tactic that doesn't matter.

For added lack of quantum accusations, let's only state the race and visible equipment before you describe your tactics for the matchup.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 03:48:58 PM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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Cannotthink

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #303 on: July 20, 2010, 04:03:04 PM »
I agree with having some actual characters made rather than puffs of possible ones that each step forward whenever its most advantageous. I was just finding it absurd that the fighter was either up against a hundred wizards and their mother or a single wizard with an unlimited number of every possible spell at his disposal.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #304 on: July 20, 2010, 04:19:45 PM »
I agree with having some actual characters made rather than puffs of possible ones that each step forward whenever its most advantageous. I was just finding it absurd that the fighter was either up against a hundred wizards and their mother or a single wizard with an unlimited number of every possible spell at his disposal.
It's not that it takes 100 wizards at once. It's just that any of 100 random wizards (or their Mom) could defeat him by themselves. :D
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 04:21:22 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

rubberduck

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #305 on: July 20, 2010, 06:10:05 PM »
each and every one of the DIFFERENT wizards presented by the DIFFERENT people was better at fighting or turtling than the fighter.

this is what i was saying earlier: a wizard has so many options to fuck everything up a fighter can bring to the table its not even funny and we could post dozens of different wizards.

on the other hand a fighters possibilities are very limited and that is why he will lose.
lose now at level 1 lose at level 2 lose at any level
because the wizard keeps getting new options and more of them while the fighters 2 options get only slightly better over the time of his career.



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rubberduck

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #306 on: July 20, 2010, 06:12:23 PM »
Quote
It's not that it takes 100 wizards at once. It's just that any of 100 random wizards (or their Mom) could defeat him by themselves. :D

especially true for mom! she's gotta be old or maybe venerable so she gets bonuses to her casting stat!^^ more spells! better dc's wrinkled ass though... :-(
well silent image could help that. so hooray for mom!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 06:55:16 PM by rubberduck »
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DMM4ever

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #307 on: July 20, 2010, 07:09:16 PM »
Is this really 16 pages of discussion of whether or not a fighter can best a wizard at a given level?  Inane.

Also, to all of the people arguing that wizards can't win at range X from the fighter under scenario Y, where I control all of the elements, then get angry when the wizard uses one of his reality altering abilities to whump the fighter and call it Fiat are imbeciles.  My d4 of HD at level one means I will be preparing silent image (1st level invis, w00t?) and your d10 means you could beat me to the ground in melee.


Okay, I have another hypothetical.  Lets say a wizard is out of spells because it is the 5th encounter of the day and he is 3rd level.  His 4th level fighter friend goes berserk and decides to blindside him with his greataxe.

Lets see old wizzy win here!

Really guys, this is the Min/Max board.  Anyone who mentioned fighter at all used to be crucified for their stupidity, lets just drop this.

And I swear to god, If the monk thing comes back I might snap.  The stupid hurted my brains.

rubberduck

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #308 on: July 20, 2010, 07:20:26 PM »
Quote
Okay, I have another hypothetical.  Lets say a wizard is out of spells because it is the 5th encounter of the day and he is 3rd level.  His 4th level fighter friend goes berserk and decides to blindside him with his greataxe.

i know you don't really mean it BUT^^
this has been posted earlier: wizard runs away while hawk familar drops shit on the fighter till he is dead... you can't throw the greataxe at the familar so you dont get to the wizard and you cant reach the hawk

hawk can reach you
wizard wins again
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rubberduck

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #309 on: July 20, 2010, 07:27:21 PM »
here is how fighting in rpgs works:
you kick your opponents shins then he gets to kick your shins
then you take turns kicking each other's shins till one of you falls over

who wins is decided by the amount of your shoes and how big they are.
fighter might have the bigger shoes on the first level but wizard has just to many shoes
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JaronK

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #310 on: July 20, 2010, 07:30:34 PM »
Hey guys, I hear that Monks can totally beat Wizards because they're anti-casters.  See, you just take some ranks in UMD and some custom gear...

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Hallack

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #311 on: July 20, 2010, 07:37:00 PM »
Hey guys, I hear that Monks can totally beat Wizards because they're anti-casters.  See, you just take some ranks in UMD and some custom gear...

JaronK

They totally can.  Look, they have good saves and all those nifty class abilities that help them overcome/resist magics.  They can totally stomp out the fighter too, especially using grappling and such.  Come to think of it Monks are more kick ass than both Wizards and Fighters.
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rubberduck

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #312 on: July 20, 2010, 07:46:51 PM »
how could we be so blind?
monks! of course! the tier 0 class
all the good saves does not need any equipment and only relies on a high wisdom
with thier medium bab and nothing else they can easily outgrapple a fullbab fighter and a polymophed wizard. they get spell resistance and turn into oustiders at level 20
i mean wizards have to do some crazy shit to be outsiders and monks get it for free

truly a superior class only lacks basketweaving
Damn! no basketweaving the monks only weakness
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Hallack

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #313 on: July 20, 2010, 07:49:40 PM »
how could we be so blind?
monks! of course! the tier 0 class
all the good saves does not need any equipment and only relies on a high wisdom
with thier medium bab and nothing else they can easily outgrapple a fullbab fighter and a polymophed wizard. they get spell resistance and turn into oustiders at level 20
i mean wizards have to do some crazy shit to be outsiders and monks get it for free

truly a superior class only lacks basketweaving
Damn! no basketweaving the monks only weakness

Yeah, but all the goodies they get from the Monk class really frees up a lot of feats.  So they can take Able Learner (if human) and Skill Focus (BasketWeaving) and still rock and roll even at that between kicking Fighter and Wizard ass.
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Bastian

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #314 on: July 20, 2010, 08:07:04 PM »
Okay, I have another hypothetical.  Lets say a wizard is out of spells because it is the 5th encounter of the day and he is 3rd level.  His 4th level fighter friend goes berserk and decides to blindside him with his greataxe.

Lets see old wizzy win here!
Hah! That one's easy. Running out of spells is no problem for a wizard who's already sold their spell book to get a horde of donkeys. Go, my donkey minions!  :lol
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 11:33:49 PM by Bastian »

JaronK

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #315 on: July 20, 2010, 08:38:55 PM »
No no, see Monks don't need gear at all, but they also max UMD and get specialized gear from the DM.  That's a Monk ability, you see.  Monks are better than Wizards because they don't run out of flurries.  They out grapple Fighters (because they get Improved Grapple as a bonus feat) and they out fight Wizards (because they have good saves).  Also they can run really fast, which is the primary key to victory at high levels.

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DMM4ever

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #316 on: July 20, 2010, 08:56:59 PM »
Sarcasm... Overload...

I have had friends legitimately push this kind of talk on me too...

(ie: monks can be really good if they are grapple monks)  All joking aside,a re there any non-full casting characters (maybe the hood?) that can take wiz 20? (assuming reasonably well optimized, not OMGWTFBBQ optimized)

JaronK

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #317 on: July 20, 2010, 09:20:56 PM »
Once you start saying "can" then the answer is always yes, just because it's possible the Wizard isn't played well.  A poorly played or poorly prepared Wizard isn't that strong, after all.  Against a really well prepared Wizard who's ready for a duel situation?  It's going to be extremely hard, though possible at the lowest levels (a Factotum could do it by simply sneaking up and assassinating the Wizard, as he can hide all day long, but that has it's own assumptions of terrain and hiding spots and such).  Once Wizards have Planar Binding or Genesis it's obviously all over.

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Shadowhunter

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Re: Fighter V Wizard (Stolen from 339 boards)
« Reply #318 on: July 20, 2010, 11:49:33 PM »
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
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[/quote]
[/spoiler]

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