Author Topic: Effective use of a spirit shaman?  (Read 3609 times)

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Endless Twilight

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Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« on: January 26, 2009, 09:45:06 PM »
I'm getting set to play a spirit shaman in a PbP campaign (ECL 5, and I'm playing a lightfoot halfling), and I thought I'd ask before I started drawing up a character sheet-what's the spirit shaman actually good at doing? Not really looking to min/max, per se, but I'd like to hear from the pro's what the class's strengths/weaknesses are, so I can at least try to play an above-average one. :) Pretty much open season on allowable books, as long as they're for 3.5E.

woodenbandman

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Re: Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2009, 09:52:16 PM »
They are strictly worse than a druid, but if you go by what's worse than a druid, you've pretty much described the entire game. They play a lot like a Cleric, casting buffs and wading into melee, or hanging back with support spells, which are mainly summoning spells and buffs for their animal friends.

Plus, they have the added bonus that if they acquire a domain, such as through taking levels of Contemplative, they can chose to receive the domain spell for the day and cast it at their leisure, meaning that they have an incredible range of spells for using with Divine Metamagic. They can combine Bite of the Werebear with Righteous Might, they can get Persistent Wraithstrike combined with Divine Power, they can use Anyspell shenanigans... Basically, they're a lesser form of a Druid, but a bit more versatile in terms of spellcasting, depending on how you play them.

Your main stat is wisdom, because you don't cast offensive spells too often. I mean, sure there's Entangle and stuff like that, but wouldn't you rather grow angry claws and stab some bitches?

Straw_Man

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Re: Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2009, 09:56:25 PM »

  Seen one played before, and it boils down to DM fiat. Spirits, certain fey types, maybe some elementals, your the house. If the campaign doesn't have a ton of them, and all the undead are mostly corporeal, your a druid with no companion or wildshape.

  Still quite powerful, but the key would be getting a more versatile spell list. Also, look into using your Turn Spirits with DMM as the description of the feature does say it functions as Turn Undead.
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

Straw_Man

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Re: Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2009, 09:58:10 PM »

  Can you use Eberron material? Theres a PrC called Sovereign Speaker that nets you 9 domains I believe.
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

Endless Twilight

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Re: Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2009, 10:03:56 PM »
Quote
Can you use Eberron material? Theres a PrC called Sovereign Speaker that nets you 9 domains I believe.

Eberron material is allowed, but this is an online PbP campaign, and I myself don't have access to the Eberron books.

Quote
Seen one played before, and it boils down to DM fiat. Spirits, certain fey types, maybe some elementals, your the house. If the campaign doesn't have a ton of them, and all the undead are mostly corporeal, your a druid with no companion or wildshape.

I asked the DM, and she said that while undead are going to be the number one type of enemy around, they're roughly evenly split between corporeal and noncorporeal, with fey and outsiders filling in as the other common enemies.

Quote
Still quite powerful, but the key would be getting a more versatile spell list. Also, look into using your Turn Spirits with DMM as the description of the feature does say it functions as Turn Undead.

Beg your pardon, but what's DMM stand for?

Quote
They are strictly worse than a druid, but if you go by what's worse than a druid, you've pretty much described the entire game. They play a lot like a Cleric, casting buffs and wading into melee, or hanging back with support spells, which are mainly summoning spells and buffs for their animal friends.

Plus, they have the added bonus that if they acquire a domain, such as through taking levels of Contemplative, they can chose to receive the domain spell for the day and cast it at their leisure, meaning that they have an incredible range of spells for using with Divine Metamagic. They can combine Bite of the Werebear with Righteous Might, they can get Persistent Wraithstrike combined with Divine Power, they can use Anyspell shenanigans... Basically, they're a lesser form of a Druid, but a bit more versatile in terms of spellcasting, depending on how you play them.

Your main stat is wisdom, because you don't cast offensive spells too often. I mean, sure there's Entangle and stuff like that, but wouldn't you rather grow angry claws and stab some bitches?

I'm leaning towards a supportive spellcaster-ish character, as the party is already pretty heavy on the melee.

Vynar

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Re: Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2009, 10:12:13 PM »
Beg your pardon, but what's DMM stand for?
DMM is Divine MetaMagic, a feat from Complete Divine. You take it choosing a metamagic feat and you burn turn undead attempts rather than a higher level spell slot to for your selected metamagic feat.

Callix

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Re: Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2009, 11:19:12 PM »
Beg your pardon, but what's DMM stand for?
DMM is Divine MetaMagic, a feat from Complete Divine. You take it choosing a metamagic feat and you burn turn undead attempts rather than a higher level spell slot to for your selected metamagic feat.
Traditional uses are Persistent Spell or Quicken Spell for obscenely buffed melee combatants. With access to Druid buffs and a well-chosen domain from Contemplative, Spirit Shaman can be even more dangerous than some pure cleric builds.
I know gameology-fu.

Straw_Man

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Re: Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2009, 11:39:15 PM »
Beg your pardon, but what's DMM stand for?
DMM is Divine MetaMagic, a feat from Complete Divine. You take it choosing a metamagic feat and you burn turn undead attempts rather than a higher level spell slot to for your selected metamagic feat.
Traditional uses are Persistent Spell or Quicken Spell for obscenely buffed melee combatants. With access to Druid buffs and a well-chosen domain from Contemplative, Spirit Shaman can be even more dangerous than some pure cleric builds.

  +1 (supported). If you only want to be above average forbear choosing Persistent and be judicious with Quicken. since your Dm has pretty much said you will be using Turn Spirit you may even choose to opt against it and just buff (strengthen) your turning. Also, ask your DM about the distance your Spirit Companion can travel from you. since its incorporeal it makes a terrific scout - it WALKS THROUGH WALLS  :evillaugh
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

Mushroom Ninja

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Re: Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2009, 11:53:23 PM »
If I remember correctly, starting at 10th level, you can have your spirit guide concentrate on spells that require concentration for you.  This means that a lot of spirit shaman power at lv 10+ comes from letting your spirit guide concentrate on powerful spells for a long time.

Surreal

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Re: Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 01:04:50 AM »
Here's the handbook from 339 which covers all your basics: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=611506

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"The late, sedate, and no to great." ~Surreal

Some Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc.
Archived version of the above with working links

The Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them
The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis

Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category
Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities
Alternative Class Features
alternative ways to get class skills

Ralp

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Re: Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2009, 05:16:47 PM »
I'm playing a Spirit Shaman in a campaign now who just leveled to 5.  She's the party healer with lesser vigor and a wand of cure light wounds, but her summoned dire badgers have been the stars of the show so far.  I went the Augmented Summoning + Spontaneous Summoning route, and I'm really looking forward to trying out her new lion.

Her detect spirits hasn't been all that useful, and chastise spirits hasn't seen any use at all yet.  Her biggest weakness has been the very few unique spells retrieved, but that's slowly opening up as she gains caster levels -- although looking ahead, I guess the top two spell levels will always be meager.  (Sometimes she retrieves entangle only to find out the adventure leads into a stone crypt, ouch.)  Mass snake's swiftness has been a gem though.

She'll be a Holt Warden (from Complete Champion) at 6th level.  It seems to be a great match mechanically and flavor-wise (well, for my Shaman anyway, your interpretation may vary).

Treantmonklvl20

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Re: Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2009, 01:43:02 AM »
Spirit Shamans are pretty much the best Summoners in the game.  If you are allowed Greenbound Summoning, then remove the "pretty much" from the first sentence.

Basically you are looking at a Druid minus the wildshape with lots more castings per day.  The Spirit Shaman casting system is also unique - essentially it's spontaneous casting with none of the traditional spontaneous caster drawbacks.

Generally you are best dumping CHA and sticking to Summoning/Healing/Utility/Buffs.
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Soda

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Re: Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2009, 02:24:56 AM »
Spontaneous Summoning and Mass Snake's Swiftness are good choices.

Going spirit shaman 10 for the concentration thing won't be great in a pbp so just prc out into anything that gives domains. Enjoy a very versatile spell list. I particularly like the druid list myself. It's got everything, buffs, battlefield control, summons, healing, and other good utility.

SS class features are weird but aren't useless. They define a lot of creature types as spirits, some tougher ones like incorporeal undead.

pfooti

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Re: Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2009, 12:41:11 PM »
The druid list also has a fair number of interestingly powerful direct-damage and evocation spells, especially in the spell compendium.

It's an annoying combo to set up, featwise, but a born of the three thunders call lightning is just fun. Sure, you're dazed the round after you cast it, but it lasts minute/level, and everybody damaged by it has to make a reflex save or fall prone, and a fort save or be stunned. So just sit back and toss your lightning.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2009, 12:59:48 PM »
I like the Storm Shaman builds, but hey most of my druids become storm oriented too.  the nifty little lvl 11 ability to yank a soul back into its body is useful, saves lots of money on raise dead. Another Shaman build i used was based off of Minsc from Baldur's Gate. My companion was Boo the miniature giant space hamster. Very entertaining character, low int high wis & cha made for interesting conversations.

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juton

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Re: Effective use of a spirit shaman?
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2009, 02:29:00 PM »
I had a bad experience playing one, but we didn't get past level 2-3 so his casting never got much of a chance to shine. I recommend the feats Spontaneous Caster and Spontaneous Summoner, both from Complete Divine. The biggest problem with a Spirit Shaman is its limited spells known, with these feats you can leave precious slots open for other spells. Also take a look at the Rapid spell metamagic, I think it lets spells with 1 round casting time as either a full round action or a standard action, which should help in combat.