Author Topic: Ring of Regeneration  (Read 12093 times)

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RobbyPants

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Ring of Regeneration
« on: January 24, 2009, 02:45:33 PM »
I'm curious why the Ring of Regeneration is valued at 90,000 gp.  It seems like the most useful aspect is the continued use of the Regeneration spell.  This is certainly useful, but it seems the rest of the ring's features really aren't worth that much gold.  Healing 1 HP per hour is pretty useless at the point when you'd have an item at that price.

Do you think fast healing 1 would be too much?
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woodenbandman

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2009, 02:54:54 PM »
A continuous item of lesser vigor should only cost like 4k or something like that. CL1x1st level spellx4 for being unslottedx1k. That's a pretty good deal, if you ask me.

RobbyPants

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2009, 03:12:48 PM »
Sometimes I wonder how much of that's just a hold-over from earlier, when the thought of unlimited healing scared people.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
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Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
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Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2009, 03:18:26 PM »
You could ask your DM for a custom item, with the spells you need and the 'regular' pricing formula for magic items. I don't think it would be unbalanced, but not everyone is that flexible, so YMMV...
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RobbyPants

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2009, 03:26:44 PM »
I'm not asking any DM for this; at this point, I'm debating adjusting it for any future games I run.

Given that the prices of fast healing 1 isn't that crazy, do you really feel the actual Regeneration effect is worth 90,000 gp?  What would the price of a continuous item of Regerneate (level 7) be?  7 x 13 x 2000 = 182,000?  I guess assuming that table really means anything, perhaps 90,000 isn't so bad.  Although, it doesn't cure the 4d8+x damage that Regenerate does, so I guess it's not really the same as mimicing the spell...

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Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Chemus

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 03:41:58 PM »
Cost continuous spells as single castings per day of persisted versions of the spells in question. Persist is +6 right? It makes the duration 24 hours+ so that's 1/2 cost, and 1/day is 1/5 cost. So the formula is (7*13*2000)/10=18200 for a permanent ring of lesser vigor (without the effect of replacing lost parts...)
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AfterCrescent

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2009, 03:22:39 PM »
Sometimes I wonder how much of that's just a hold-over from earlier, when the thought of unlimited healing scared people.
Pretty much.  I mean infinite healing = a magical trap of cure minor wounds. It's really not that big of a deal.

Now considering that there aren't really rules for cutting off people's body parts, I don't view the primary function as that important, but if it is a rampant aspect in your campaign, then it's be worth more since spells that regen body parts are few and far between.  Still, 90K is a little excessive.
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RobbyPants

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2009, 10:05:40 PM »
Now considering that there aren't really rules for cutting off people's body parts, I don't view the primary function as that important, but if it is a rampant aspect in your campaign, then it's be worth more since spells that regen body parts are few and far between.
No, it really isn't a big part of my game or any I've played in recently.

On a related note, I did run a one-on-one 2E game a while back where a Ring of Regeneration played an important role.  This particular ring I had made out of troll bone, so just looking at it, it wasn't anything remarkable.  The PC found it on someone he killed who was wearing it attached to a necklace (not realizing what it was).  The PC also didn't know what it was, but put it on none-the-less.

Later, the PC got killed (and possibly looted), but his killers didn't take the ring, as it looked like it had no value.  After they killed him, they cut off his head and dumped him somewhere.  After a week, his head grew back, and he found himself laying there holding his (old) head.  I think he ended up keeping it (or at least the skull) as some sort of grim souvenier.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2009, 11:50:43 PM »
Sometimes I wonder how much of that's just a hold-over from earlier, when the thought of unlimited healing scared people.

Oh, about 70,000 or so of it.

20,000 seems about right.
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RobbyPants

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2009, 09:23:32 AM »
Did you just pull that number out of the air?

The only reason I ask is because when I looked at the item, I was thinking (out of the blue) that 10,000 to 20,000 might be more suitable.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2009, 03:08:16 PM »
Did you just pull that number out of the air?

The only reason I ask is because when I looked at the item, I was thinking (out of the blue) that 10,000 to 20,000 might be more suitable.

I was going by about how many wands of lesser vigor would last you for life.

Assume 13.3 encounters/level.  Assume you need to heal, on average, 80 hp/encounter.  The game lasts 20 levels.
You'll need to heal 13.3*80*20 hp. 
A wand of lesser vigor heals 11*50 hp, and costs 750 gp.

750 *(13.3*80*20)/(11*50) =  29018.19 gp

Now, healing with the ring of regeneration is much slower than using wands.  That means it should be discounted compared to our bucket o' wands.  Furthermore, you can't just pass the ring around and heal other party members.  It also takes up a slot.  That would put it down to half price, say, around 15000.

On the other hand, there's the wild card of how much regeneration is actually worth (in addition to the healing).  I suppose a particularly badass dude might cut off their own finger to activate the "regenerate (as the spell)" to cure " 4d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +35), rid the subject of exhaustion and/or fatigue, and eliminate all nonlethal damage the subject has taken."

I'd add about 5k for that ability, since it doesn't do much to enhance the preexisting hp regeneration.

That brings us to 20k, which is cheaper than the bucket o' wands, but the wands don't take up a slot and can be shared with other PCs.
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JaronK

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2009, 12:32:17 AM »
It's probably one of the most overpriced items around.  And I'm currently playing in multiple games where unlimited slow healing is available... the DMs all love it.  Some were hesitant at first, but they've all basically decided that it's not at all overpowered and is in fact really good for gameplay reasons.

So, if that ring gave Fast Healing 1 and let you reattach body parts, it would be absolutely fine... and 20kgp seems like an okay price for that sort of thing.  Heck, if it were cheaper that would be fine too.  It's not overpowered even in 5th level games.

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2009, 03:44:54 AM »
Continuous lesser vigor:

caster level 1 * spell level 1 * 2000 continuous price * 4 duration measured in rounds = 8000 off the shelf.  Sounds 'bout right to me.
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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2009, 04:24:58 AM »
Continuous lesser vigor:

caster level 1 * spell level 1 * 2000 continuous price * 4 duration measured in rounds = 8000 off the shelf.  Sounds 'bout right to me.

Automatic reset magic trap of cure minor wounds

caster level 1 * spell level 1/2 * 1000 automatic reset = 500 gp
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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2009, 07:59:01 AM »
Continuous lesser vigor:

caster level 1 * spell level 1 * 2000 continuous price * 4 duration measured in rounds = 8000 off the shelf.  Sounds 'bout right to me.

Automatic reset magic trap of cure minor wounds

caster level 1 * spell level 1/2 * 1000 automatic reset = 500 gp
Doesn't that also get a 1/4 modifier for being immobile?

Talen Lee

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2009, 01:07:07 PM »
Sometimes I wonder how much of that's just a hold-over from earlier, when the thought of unlimited healing scared people.
Basically.

D&D 3.0 was all about attrition, which means anything that reduced downtime between fights was to be precious and carefully dispensed. It also meant the designers heavily undervalued perpetual effects, because they were really only going to be made to last for 2-3 fights more than normal anyway. Lots of problems were inherited from this mindset in 3.5, which is where Eberron and its pulpy, fewer-but-harder style of encounter rose into vogue.

This is why the Wilder is a balance issue, this is why the wizard is overpowered, and this is why rings of regeneration are regarded as dangerously powerful objects to have but wands of wraithstrike aren't.

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2009, 01:12:14 PM »
I think it's also a holdover from pre-3.0 D&D, when it actually gave you Regeneration, instead of a crappy Fast Healing. I remember things like what RobbyPants described happening in some of the older games I played in. One guy fell off a cliff, and woke up a week later. :D
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Talen Lee

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2009, 01:17:39 PM »
As daft as 3.0 was, pre-3.0 was dafter. Let us not speak of it again.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2009, 03:54:34 PM »
Continuous lesser vigor:

caster level 1 * spell level 1 * 2000 continuous price * 4 duration measured in rounds = 8000 off the shelf.  Sounds 'bout right to me.

Automatic reset magic trap of cure minor wounds

caster level 1 * spell level 1/2 * 1000 automatic reset = 500 gp
Doesn't that also get a 1/4 modifier for being immobile?
Don't think so.  IIRC, the rules for making magical traps only depend on the spell.

Besides, it *is* mobile.  It attacks anyone touching master's precious vault.  The fact that master's precious vault is an adamantine piggy bank, and is currently slung over the shoulder of a dwarven warrior means nothing.

Or, for marginally less cheese, it attacks anyone who opens a box.  Open/shut repeat.
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Re: Ring of Regeneration
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2009, 06:21:43 PM »
Didn't 3.0 still have CLW and Lesser Vigor though?
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