Author Topic: (Ignore this)  (Read 2128 times)

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Emy

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(Ignore this)
« on: January 23, 2009, 09:26:47 AM »
Reading through that thread, I see what K meant now. Problem solved, mostly.

As it happens, I think he's wrong, but I'll read through the rest of the thread before I post about it, since the post I'd be responding to is over two years old.

So, Tshern's "Peculiar necromancy" thread got me thinking about rebuking.

One thing I noticed bothered me somewhat while I was looking around for ways to either boost rebuking or create a Planetar Zombie with high wisdom. In K's Revised Necromancer Handbook, he states (on Necromantic Presence + Rebuking) "Hilariously, when you take over an undead monster when you have this ability, it gains +4 Turn Resistance: almost assuredly making it ineligible for you to control it".

Does it really work that way?

Here are the interpretations of rebuking I can come up with, though there are likely others. The examples are mostly because I'm somewhat ill and rather tired; I'm using them to organize my thoughts.

EHDfT: Effective hit dice for turning. I got sick of typing it out at some point.
Evilpants: Dread Necromancer 6 with no bonuses or penalties to rebuking. He has a friend with a Lyre of the Restful Soul.
Radius: 7HD Skeleton with no turn resistance.
Ulna: identical to Radius, but is a separate skeleton.

1: Effective HD for rebuking is checked constantly.
Evilpants rebukes Radius while his bard works the Lyre. His effective rebuking level is greater than or equal to twice Radius' effective HD for turning (3), so the skeleton is rebuked. When the Lyre wears off, Radius has 7 effective HD for turning once more, making Evilpants unable to control it. Results: Evilpants regrets not using Command Undead instead.

2: Effective HD for rebuking is only checked while resolving the rebuke attempt. Therefore, how many you can fit in your control pool is dependent upon how much you can lower the target's EHDfT before rebuking them.
Evilpants rebukes Radius while his bard works the Lyre. His effective rebuking level is greater than or equal to twice Radius' effective HD for turning (3), so the skeleton is rebuked. When the Lyre wears off, Radius has 7 effective HD for turning once more, but it does not invalidate Evilpants' control because the controlled creature only needs to be a legal target when the rebuke attempt is resolved. Evilpants later encounters Ulna, and attempts to rebuke it too (w/Lyre of course). He succeeds, and now controls both Radius and Ulna. His rebuke control pool is at 6/6 HD (since each of the skeletons were 3EHDfT when rebuked), so if he wishes to gain control of more things, he'll have to dismiss his control of Radius or Ulna.

3: Effective HD for rebuking is only checked while resolving the rebuke attempt, but another rebuke attempt will check the current EHDfT of the undead in your control pool.
Evilpants rebukes Radius while his bard works the Lyre. His effective rebuking level is greater than or equal to twice Radius' effective HD for turning (3), so the skeleton is rebuked. When the Lyre wears off, Radius has 7 effective HD for turning once more, but it does not invalidate Evilpants' control because the controlled creature only needs to be a legal target when the rebuke attempt is resolved. Evilpants later encounters Ulna, and attempts to rebuke it too (w/Lyre of course). He doesn't have space in his rebuke control pool, which is at 7/6 HD (since his commanded creatures total 7EHDfT right now).

2 or 3 would be much more congruent with existing mechanics in D&D, specifically that of spellcasting.

Is there any rules text that supports or undermines any of these? If so, where can I find it?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 10:16:44 AM by Emy »

JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: (Ignore this)
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2011, 01:39:02 AM »
I claim this for the Emperor!!
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Can you find the Wumpus? (Hint: start with the spoiler....)
[spoiler] :beathorse [/spoiler]
...........  :joystick

veekie

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Re: (Ignore this)
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2011, 03:35:41 AM »
Here goes another one.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

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I can barely read mine.

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[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

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Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

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X-Codes

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Re: (Ignore this)
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 03:38:39 AM »
Hey, look, it's a half-million persian corpses!

wotmaniac

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Re: (Ignore this)
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 03:46:09 AM »
@ JohnnyMayHymn:   :clap  keep up the good work ... I'm sure the Emperor will smile. :)

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
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altpersona

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Re: (Ignore this)
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 04:34:58 AM »
:D

nice work.
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dark_hound

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Re: (Ignore this)
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2011, 09:33:54 PM »
I claim this for the Emperor!!

I don't know if this needs to happen more or less.   :psyduck

altpersona

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Re: (Ignore this)
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2011, 10:28:26 PM »
demerits for dark hound!
The goal of power is power. - idk
We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow

The Final Countdown is now stuck in your head.

Anim-manga sux.