Author Topic: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh  (Read 15934 times)

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Josh

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Re: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh
« Reply #80 on: February 05, 2009, 12:44:38 AM »
Can you phrase your question in the form of a question?
But then you would not be able to snidely dodge it as easily.  

Take this statement:
I can imagine it being interesting, but I can also imagine it being unsatisfying: Josh*'s desire to be the center of attention makes it hard enough to get the gems that two other podcasters can offer, can you imagine him as the elephant in the room amongst five or six?

And Why do you think this is true?  Or did you say something you did not believe to be true?
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Talen Lee

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Re: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh
« Reply #81 on: February 05, 2009, 12:46:56 AM »
Can you phrase your question in the form of a question?
But then you would not be able to snidely dodge it as easily.
I just want to stop you from being intentionally ambiguous.

Take this statement:
Quote
I can imagine it being interesting, but I can also imagine it being unsatisfying: Josh*'s desire to be the center of attention makes it hard enough to get the gems that two other podcasters can offer, can you imagine him as the elephant in the room amongst five or six?

And Why do you think this is true?  Or did you say something you did not believe to be true?

What, exactly, is it you're asking here? I'm talking about two hypotheticals and a third related hypothetical. Which do you you want clarifications on?

Josh

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Re: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh
« Reply #82 on: February 05, 2009, 12:48:13 AM »
As a collaborative project, write it. You have a team of people, put 'em to use. Podcasting is, in my opinion, no different to writing articles or blog posting, it's just a different medium. Consider using a flowchart to direct things? It's entirely possible to do a scripted-but-impro piece.
Ah.  Have you ever done theater or any kind of acting?  Podcasting is completely different from articles and blogs.  And scripted comedy is very different from our regular shows.

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Josh

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Re: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh
« Reply #83 on: February 05, 2009, 12:49:14 AM »
Can you phrase your question in the form of a question?
But then you would not be able to snidely dodge it as easily.
I just want to stop you from being intentionally ambiguous.

Take this statement:
Quote
I can imagine it being interesting, but I can also imagine it being unsatisfying: Josh*'s desire to be the center of attention makes it hard enough to get the gems that two other podcasters can offer, can you imagine him as the elephant in the room amongst five or six?

And Why do you think this is true?  Or did you say something you did not believe to be true?

What, exactly, is it you're asking here? I'm talking about two hypotheticals and a third related hypothetical. Which do you you want clarifications on?
yes.  I want to know what you were thinking when you typed that.
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Talen Lee

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Re: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh
« Reply #84 on: February 05, 2009, 12:50:55 AM »
As a collaborative project, write it. You have a team of people, put 'em to use. Podcasting is, in my opinion, no different to writing articles or blog posting, it's just a different medium. Consider using a flowchart to direct things? It's entirely possible to do a scripted-but-impro piece.
Ah.  Have you ever done theater or any kind of acting?  Podcasting is completely different from articles and blogs.  And scripted comedy is very different from our regular shows.
Yes, yes, and yes. It doesn't change the fact that the purpose is the same.

And since this came from Meg asking about the bonus, collaborative material, I wasn't offering advice for your regular shows.

Talen Lee

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Re: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh
« Reply #85 on: February 05, 2009, 12:52:36 AM »
Can you phrase your question in the form of a question?
But then you would not be able to snidely dodge it as easily.
I just want to stop you from being intentionally ambiguous.

Take this statement:
Quote
I can imagine it being interesting, but I can also imagine it being unsatisfying: Josh*'s desire to be the center of attention makes it hard enough to get the gems that two other podcasters can offer, can you imagine him as the elephant in the room amongst five or six?

And Why do you think this is true?  Or did you say something you did not believe to be true?

What, exactly, is it you're asking here? I'm talking about two hypotheticals and a third related hypothetical. Which do you you want clarifications on?
yes.  I want to know what you were thinking when you typed that.
"Man, I should have been in bed twenty minutes ago, goddamn this diet."

More seriously: The character you play in the podcast puts himself forward as an obnoxious extrusion that more often than not takes an authoritive overcommander stance in conversation. In the collaborative project, if you continue to play this character (and what would be the point otherwise), you're likely to overbear over more people, or dilute the character. Either way it's not good.

Josh

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Re: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh
« Reply #86 on: February 05, 2009, 02:44:10 AM »
As a collaborative project, write it. You have a team of people, put 'em to use. Podcasting is, in my opinion, no different to writing articles or blog posting, it's just a different medium. Consider using a flowchart to direct things? It's entirely possible to do a scripted-but-impro piece.
Ah.  Have you ever done theater or any kind of acting?  Podcasting is completely different from articles and blogs.  And scripted comedy is very different from our regular shows.
Yes, yes, and yes. It doesn't change the fact that the purpose is the same.

And since this came from Meg asking about the bonus, collaborative material, I wasn't offering advice for your regular shows.
ok.  How is their purpose the same?  How is a blog entry the same as a podcast, in your perception?  They seem different to me.

One is an audio recording and that is in and of itself different.  It is like saying tv and radio are the same.

More seriously: The character you play in the podcast puts himself forward as an obnoxious extrusion that more often than not takes an authoritive overcommander stance in conversation. In the collaborative project, if you continue to play this character (and what would be the point otherwise), you're likely to overbear over more people, or dilute the character. Either way it's not good.
OK.   Now why do you think that?  More particularly, the question I asked earlier.

Is there anything other than "I don't like it?" 
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Talen Lee

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Re: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh
« Reply #87 on: February 05, 2009, 02:56:49 AM »
The purpose of all art is manipulation. It's through an oblique or direct means influencing an audience to react to a stimulus. Some writing - such as scientific papers or training manuals - want to manipulate in a very distinct, simple fashion, delivering information to people capable of utilising it. A blog post, and a pod cast, the same thing. It's a less formal way to manipulate an audience and bring them around to thought processes. The how is where the difference lies, but the purpose remains the same.

Why do I think that it's not good? Why do I think that Josh's character is bombastic? Why do I think that a collaborative project would be hurt by this presence? Please clarify the question.

And what's the 'it' in your subsequent question?

Josh

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Re: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh
« Reply #88 on: February 05, 2009, 11:01:02 AM »
So talen, the point I am hearing here is 'all art has the same goal so it uses the same skills' is that what you mean?

As for clarification, do you have any reason to belive the earlier quote is true? Or do you just feel it.
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skydragonknight

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Re: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh
« Reply #89 on: February 05, 2009, 06:26:13 PM »
What is true is a matter of perception. The two of you obviously have different perceptions and different life experiences so why should it be a surprise if one person believes something is true that the other does not? If you can't accept that people have different perspectives, then you're going to have a miserable life trying to prove to everyone that you're 'right'. Just give it up, both of you. It should be obvious to both of you that the other person's mind is made up and you have no hope of changing it with words.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Talen Lee

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Re: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh
« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2009, 07:19:15 PM »
So talen, the point I am hearing here is 'all art has the same goal so it uses the same skills' is that what you mean?
No. I think that all art has the same goal. I also think there's a lot of overlap in the skill set.

As for clarification, do you have any reason to belive the earlier quote is true? Or do you just feel it.
That's not clarification. That's reiteration.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 08:54:57 PM by Talen Lee »

Straw_Man

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Re: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh
« Reply #91 on: February 05, 2009, 07:49:00 PM »

  May I chime in? Josh, your persona on the boards come across as an overbearing intellectual. You frame assumptions that support your views and that criticise deviation from it. Your obviously erudite and knowledgeable but you make debate into Monday Night Hockey brawl. And your opinions are interesting, but often I just don't feel like debating the point unless its unambiguously wrong IMO and needs to be discussed.

  And yes, all that comes across as a jerk; a big brother thats 'educating' his idiot sibs.
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

Josh

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Re: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh
« Reply #92 on: February 07, 2009, 03:53:57 AM »
So talen, the point I am hearing here is 'all art has the same goal so it uses the same skills' is that what you mean?
No. I think that all art has the same goal. I also think there's a lot of overlap in the skill set.

As for clarification, do you have any reason to belive the earlier quote is true? Or do you just feel it.
That's not clarification. That's reiteration.

Gotcha.


  May I chime in? Josh, your persona on the boards come across as an overbearing intellectual. You frame assumptions that support your views and that criticise deviation from it. Your obviously erudite and knowledgeable but you make debate into Monday Night Hockey brawl. And your opinions are interesting, but often I just don't feel like debating the point unless its unambiguously wrong IMO and needs to be discussed.

  And yes, all that comes across as a jerk; a big brother thats 'educating' his idiot sibs.
That perspective I can definitely appreciate. 

Generally I try to keep things as simple as possible, for the sake of clarity. 
The problem with that is people often try to pull apart a tiny corner, without looking at the big picture.

Like with the whole "don't kick people out" issue.  My core point is "It is wrong to treat people like shit." And instead we are embroiled in "are people associates or friends." 

The other angle that I have learned to avoid is putting down too much information.  I also generally try and remove the coloring statements, or rather I did.  I assumed I would sound less like a jerk if I tried to speak as plainly as possible.  Now I get the sense that that makes it incomprehensible.

There are also a number of other things
Like:
"You frame assumptions that support your views and that criticise deviation from it."
This statement proposes that I am making "assumptions" and that that is bad.  And you also say "criticize deviation" like that is bad. 

Assumptions are a standard part of any discussion.  And I don't make assumptions fit my point.  Rather my point fits the assumptions.  As for criticizing deviation, yes.  That is also pretty standard in a discussion.  When things are incorrect I point that out.  Thats how you win, except...

I can appreciate that you think my attitude is that of a jerky older brother.  Mostly because that is pretty much the case.  So my goal is then to take that image and rework things to bring is around to something more positive, like a cool older brother you want to emulate. 

Good insight. 

I had always been under the impression that the truth was the answer.  Maybe it isnt.
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Straw_Man

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Re: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh
« Reply #93 on: February 07, 2009, 05:18:51 AM »

  If truth were the answer there'd be no need for politicians  ;). I'm glad you find something useful.

  I must say though, if we don't criticise the assumption we're probably in agreement with your point; the fact we are means we either disagree or the means you use to reach it.

  I'm not sure you should be reaching for any image in particular. Have you noticed this when you GM: you put in a plot point or someone even loosely in charge of PC's and they try to destroy it. Most of that crowd is here and bridles hard when you attempt to give direction *wry smile*.
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

Josh

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Re: A Very Special Episode: The Intervention of Josh
« Reply #94 on: February 07, 2009, 07:25:57 PM »
Have you noticed this when you GM: you put in a plot point or someone even loosely in charge of PC's and they try to destroy it. Most of that crowd is here and bridles hard when you attempt to give direction *wry smile*.

Another good analogy.  I am good at creating NPCs the players want to follow.  Maybe the skill translates.
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