Author Topic: Wizards and gishes and whips and what...?  (Read 2326 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

JohnOSevens

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 20
    • Email
Wizards and gishes and whips and what...?
« on: January 16, 2009, 04:10:21 AM »
Ok so I'm on a certain play-by-post site, and I have a character like so:

[spoiler=Character Sheet]      Ability    |   Temporary   | Class                 Level
     Score   Mod  |  Score   Mod  | Focused Conjurer      1
STR   10     +0   |               |
DEX   13     +1   |   12     +1   |
CON   16     +3   |               |
INT   16     +3   |               |
WIS   13     +1   |               |XP  : 60                Char Level: 1
CHA    9     -1   |               |Need: 1000              ECL       : 1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Total   Current   Subdual |         Total   Dex   Misc
HP    :   7        7              | Init  :   1   =  1   +
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Total         Armour   Shield   Dex   Size   Natural   Defl   Misc
AC    :   11  =  10 +         +       +  1   +     +         +      +
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Total   Base   Str   Size |         Total   Base   Dex   Size
Melee :       =  0   +  0  +  0   | Range :       =   0  +  0  +  0
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
SAVES      Key                    Ability
         Ability   Bonus     Base   Mod   Magic   Misc
Fort  :    Con      +3     =   0  +  3  +       +
Ref   :    Dex      +1     =   0  +  1  +       +
Will  :    Wis      +3     =   2  +  1  +       +
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
RACE ABILITIES
+1 Skill Point per level
Bonus Feat

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CLASS ABILITIES


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
FEATS
Human Bonus: Combat Casting
1:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
LANGUAGES
Common
Draconic
Elven
Drow

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SKILLS                    Max Ranks (3 + Level):     CC Max Ranks (/2):

                           Key    Skill Ability                    Misc
                         Ability   Mod    Mod     Ranks    Synergy  Mod
Appraise                  INT
Bluff                     CHA
Climb                     STR
Concentration             CON     +7    =  3   +    4    +         +
Craft                     INT
Decipher Script           INT     +7    =  3   +    4    +         +
Diplomacy                 CHA
Disable Device            INT
Disguise                  CHA
Escape Artist             DEX
Forgery                   INT
Gather Information        CHA
Handle Animal             CHA
Heal                      WIS
Hide                      DEX
Intimidate                CHA
Jump                      STR
Knowledge (Arcana)        INT      +7    =  3   +    4    +         +
Listen                    WIS
Move Silently             DEX
Open Lock                 DEX
Perform ( )               CHA
Profession                INT
Ride                      DEX
Search                    INT
Sense Motive              WIS      +3   =  1   +    2    +         +
Sleight of Hand           DEX
Spellcraft                INT      +3   =  3   +    3    +         +
Spot                      WIS
Survival                  WIS
Swim                      STR
Tumble                    DEX      +3   =  1   +    2    +         +
Use Magic Device          CHA
Use Rope                  DEX


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WEAPON          TAB     DAM     CRIT     RNG   WGHT  SIZE    TYPE  PROPERTIES
Tentacle Whip    +2    1d4+0    x2       15'   ---   Light   Pierce *
* = Counts as Magic to overcome DR, Poison (DC 12 1d4 Dex), channel touch

                                                  TOTAL WEIGHT:        LB
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        ARMOUR CHECK    MAX  SPELL
ARMOUR          TYPE    BONUS  PENALTY  DEX  FAIL  SPEED  WGHT  PROPERTIES


                                                  TOTAL WEIGHT:        LB
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SPELLS - Banned Schools: Evocation, Enchantment, and Necromancy

Level 0 (Prepare 2, plus 3 Conjuration)
- Caltrops        (SPC) (Conj.)**
- Amanuensis      (SPC) (Trans.)
- Detect Magic    (PHB) (Div.)
- Read Magic      (PHB) (Div.)
- Mage Hand       (PHB) (Trans.)
- Mending         (PHB) (Trans.)
- Arcane Mark     (PHB) (Univ.)
- Prestidigitation(PHB) (Univ.)*
- Ghost Sound     (PHB) (Ill.)
- Launch Item     (SPC) (Trans.)
- Resistance      (PHB) (Abj.)
- Open/Close      (PHB) (Trans.)
- Acid Splash     (PHB) (Conj.)*
- Message         (PHB) (Trans.)
- Alter Breasts   (NYM) (Trans.)*
-

Level 1 (Prepare 0, Plus 3 Conjuration, Plus 1 Bonus)
- True Strike          (PHB) (Div.)*
- Shield               (PHB) (Abj.)
- Mage Armor           (PHB) (Conj.)*
- Benign Transposition (SPC) (Conj.)
- Grease               (PHB) (Conj.)*
- Orb of Acid, Lesser  (SPC) (Conj.)*

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

COIN:    PP:    GP:    SP:   CP:
GEMS:

                                                  TOTAL WEIGHT:        LB
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GEAR                                                            WEIGHT LB



                                                  TOTAL WEIGHT:        LB
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOAD:  LIGHT   MEDIUM (-3) HEAVY/MAX (-6)  LIFT (X 2)  PUSH/DRAG (X 5)
           LB      LB           /    LB        LB           LB
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAGIC ITEMS

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
FAMILIAR
Hanzo
Tiny Aberration (Symbiont)
Hit Dice: 2d8+2 (11hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 10 feet
Armor Class: 19 (+2 Size, +3 Dex, +4 Natural), touch 15, flat-footeded 16
Attack: Sting +6 Melee (1d4-1 plus poison)
Full Attack: Sting +6 Melee (1d4-1 plus poison)
Space/Reach: 2 1/2ft. / 15 ft.
Special Attacks: Channel touch, improved attack, poison
Special Qualities: Blindsight 60ft., empathic link, improved evasion, share spells, symbiont traits, telepathy
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +2
Abilities: Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 6, Wis 7, Cha 10, Ego 5
Skills: Climb +2, Hide +11, Move Silently +5
Feats: Alertness, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Weapon Finesse

Improved Attack
Host receives:
-No penalty to use off-hand
-+1 to all attacks
-+4 to all opposed rolls for Trip and Disarm and does not provoke attack of opportunity

Poison (DC = 10 + 1/2 hit dice + Con = 12) 1d4 Dex / 1d4 Dex

Telepathy limited to host.
[/spoiler]

The short version:
Human
Wizard 1 (Focused Conjurer banning Evocation, Enchantment, and Necromancy)
The DM allowed her to do a ritual giving her Familiar benefits to an Eberron-flavored daelkyr tentacle whip, even though the setting is not Eberron.

I was originally planning to go Wizard 4 / Fighter 2 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Eldritch Knight 8

Now I have my little friend there, and I'm not sure what I want to do.
Focus on whip feats and tricks and be a gish wielding my little friend as my primary weapon?
Focus on spells that require touch attacks? Does Conjuration even have spells that require touch attacks?

Input/advice/snarky comments on spell selection/feat selection etc. will be appreciated.
John O'Sevens
formerly SageBahamut on 339

Endarire

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2171
    • Email
Re: Wizards and gishes and whips and what...?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2009, 05:54:30 AM »
I'll tout my usual arcane gish build suggestion.  This build gets much of its damage from Battle Jump, Pounce, and later wraithstrike and Arcane Strike.  You can swap one of the feats, like Leap Attack, for Exotic Weapon Proficiency and rearrange the rest.  (You can dump Able Learner if you have ample skill points.  I included it for simplicity.)

In this build, you're always 1 spell level behind a full Wizard, but have Battle Jump and Pounce to somewhat make up for it.  I highly recommend keeping Practiced Spellcaster so your spells last longer and are less likely to be dispelled.  This build otherwise emphasizes casting, granting L18 base Wizard casting and 16 BAB at L20.

Conjuration has orbs that require ranged touch attacks, but Transmutation has wraithstrike which turns melee attacks into melee touch attacks for 1 round as a swift action (Complete Adventurer 158).  Evocation and Necromancy are the main schools requiring offensive melee touches.

Requirements
-Human
-14 base INT
-Neutral Good or Chaotic Good alignment for Sacred Exorcist (good) and Barbarian (nonlawful)

Build
NG Human Paragon1/Whirling Frenzy Pouncing Barbarian1/Martial (Focused) Conjurer OR Transmuter1/Paragon+2/Wizard+1/Ruathar3/Abjurant Champion5/Dragonslayer1/Spellsword1/Sacred Exorcist4

1: Able Learner, Battle Jump
2: [Pounce]
3: [Power Attack], [Iron Will - From O Hole], Practiced Caster
4: [Combat Casting]
5: [+2 INT]
6: Leap Attack
9: Arcane Strike
12: Dodge
15: Cleave
18: Improved Initiative
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: Wizards and gishes and whips and what...?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2009, 10:29:25 AM »
I was originally planning to go Wizard 4 / Fighter 2 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Eldritch Knight 8
If nothing else, I'd suggest Wizard 6 / Fighter 1 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Eldritch Knight 7.  This nets you one more caster level at the cost of +1 BAB and 4 HP on average.  I'd say the trade-off is worth it.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

woodenbandman

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2188
    • Email
Re: Wizards and gishes and whips and what...?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2009, 11:32:12 AM »
I'd suggest for a gish that you go Anima Mage, or any other way to persist things for free. Wizard2(precocious apprentice), Binder1(Improved Binding), Anima Mage until you get persistent wraithstrike, Abjurant Champion/Spellsword/Eldritch Knight and stuff. Be a Neraph, that negates the need of taking a fighter level to become an Eldritch Knight, since you get proficiencies with simple and martial weapons for free, as well as Neraph Charge. What you do:

1: Persist wraithstrike.
2: Charge with neraph charge.
3: Profit.

If you want, toss in a level of Lion Totem Whirling blah to get a huge number of flat footed touch power attacks.

Overall, it takes 5 anima mage levels to get vestige metamagic, bumping your binder level to 6, which, among other things, allows you to bind Tenebrous for infinite Turn undead attempts, deeper darkness at will, the ability to see in magic darkness, and my personal favorite: Flicker. This allows you to, for 6 rounds, teleport as an immediate action.

Now, with this build, you should have a BAB of 16 and a CL of at least 17. You get persistent wraithstrike goodness, which, combined with neraph charge, allows you to hit an enemy's Flat Footed Touch AC with a pounce, which kind of negates the need for shock trooper, really. This allows you to be a defensive monster, because you can teleport away from full attacks (Flicker says that it grants 50% miss chance if you use it in this way, so I'm going to go with that on abrupt jaunt) most times that it would be relevant, be in an area of darkness that nobody but you can see through, and stack miss chances out the butt, which leads me to my next point:

To take more Anima Mage levels or not?

If you go anima mage all the way, you'll have a BAB of +6 3/4 from your wizard and binder levels. However, you can then bind Chupoclops, meaning you don't need a barbarian level. That right there's a free caster level. Treasure it. You can pick up 7 more BAB from your remaining levels, but that loses you a fourth attack. It's up to you, whether you want more offense or more defense. Depending on what spells you persist, the extra anima mage is probably better for both offense and defense, but the first one is stronger in straight up combat.

With the anima mage, you can persist my favorite 3 persistable spells: Greater Mirror Image, Greater Blink, and Wraithstrike, which will give you touch attacks all day, and a 95% miss chance (approx.) on all attacks that cannot see through illusions, see invisible creatures, and strike the ethereal plane.

I'm sure that there's some better way of getting free persist, but I like this way. It's fun. A bit MAD, you need strength, Con(of course), Int, Dex and a little Cha. Your spells can help with any and all of that, though. Say hello to my little friend, Bite of the Werebear. Persist that bad boy for +16 strength, +7 natural armor, + a lot of con, and + some dex. And if you find yourself in a pickle, you can use limited wish to persist any spell that a limited wish could replicate, such as divine power. That's an awesome trick, you can keep it.

Have fun! Happy persisting.