Author Topic: Hexblade - Does it suck?  (Read 9152 times)

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EjoThims

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Re: Hexblade - Does it suck?
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2009, 01:47:13 PM »
Check my Rewrite Compilation.  ;)

Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: Hexblade - Does it suck?
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2009, 03:57:55 AM »
Where was that unofficial fix from the designer of the class?
Ah, here it was. He apologises and everything.
How nice of him to do so! And yeah, that looks a lot better, much better indeed! If only for the curse modification...

Yea, the Hexblade is a great Debuffer, but I'd really prefer it to actually be worthwhile in it's own right instead of solely existing to make others more powerful. Bard is bad enough in that aspect.

As for solo debuffing with an action stealer or something; when you have to over specialize that much and jump through that many hoops to even be competitive after the things we do to a build, it's a sign that the class is indeed lacking, not a sign that it does have merits.
+1 billion.

Teamwork is always a plus, and I fully support it, but if you have to overspecialize just so that you don't suck WHEN working with a team (and even then, you're the redheaded stepchild of the team), there's a problem with your class.

For those of you that want invocation using Hexblades, Ejo's and my own, iirc are both invocation using fixes.
+Another Billion or so, you shouldn't optimize to be optimally decent. The aforementioned fix is pretty nice; that being said, I think that for the intents and purposes, I'm gonna try and convince my DM of your invocation-style fix instead (it actually works flavorwise with a character concept I had, so danke).

Check my Rewrite Compilation.  ;)
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EjoThims

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Re: Hexblade - Does it suck?
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2009, 08:59:09 AM »
I think I love you. Don't worry, wont stalk you, just... that's so incredibly f***ing useful...

Report it for a sticky request then.  ;)

ninjarabbit

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Re: Hexblade - Does it suck?
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2009, 11:25:03 AM »
While I do think the hexblade is ultimately poorly designed it can still can be a good tank if played properly (it is very easy to screw up a hexblade build).

First is the fact that many of the good debuffing feats, items, and etc are cha-based like dreadful wrath, netherese battle curse, imtimidate (a hexblade class skill), and the sudden stunning weapon enhancement so there's synergy with the hexblade.

Second is that the hexblade actually has a good spell list: augment familiar, charm person, glitterdust, alter self, whirling blade, greater magic weapon, hound of doom, slow, stinking cloud, polymorph, and enervation. If nothing else hexblades can qualify for feats like minor shapeshift and use items like eternal wands, something most other tank classes can't do.

Third is that since a hexblade has d10 hit dice and full BAB so it ends up with the most durable and combat-ready familar in the game and it can share the buffs a hexblade has. Improved familar is an excellent choice and a few familiars like salt mephits and howlers have debuffing abilities of their own to go with the hexblade's own debuffing.

I'm not saying that the hexblade is uber but it is a solid middle tier class that has it's niche and plays the role of BSF as good as anyone else while not being completely helpless or too dependent for buffs and support.

woodenbandman

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Re: Hexblade - Does it suck?
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2009, 01:28:07 PM »
Remember for their spells that they do have crap save DCs and that their CL is forever gimped to half of their HD. I personally think that a spellthief could pwn them in every way, but I do think that the hexblade is an ok class. It just needs to get enough curses per day to be useful, perhaps similar to the knight's challenge or the Ninja's Ki Pool (no there aren't enough of those, but it's better than nothing).

Midnight_v

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Re: Hexblade - Does it suck?
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2009, 01:57:05 PM »
Remember for their spells that they do have crap save DCs and that their CL is forever gimped to half of their HD. I personally think that a spellthief could pwn them in every way, but I do think that the hexblade is an ok class. It just needs to get enough curses per day to be useful, perhaps similar to the knight's challenge or the Ninja's Ki Pool (no there aren't enough of those, but it's better than nothing).
Well there's two lines of thought you know.
What the class is. (including available optimization)
What the class should be (including house rules and creation)

I think I'm going to try my hand at the latter. (and hell why not everyone else has...)
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woodenbandman

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Re: Hexblade - Does it suck?
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2009, 02:12:06 PM »
I'm aware of this. I really like Ejo's hexblade rewrite that brings it up to about bard level in terms of power.

Midnight_v

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Re: Hexblade - Does it suck?
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2009, 02:20:39 PM »
I'm aware of this. I really like Ejo's hexblade rewrite that brings it up to about bard level in terms of power.
Ahh. I meant no offense! Hmm... I think I'm going to do a bit of drawing from various sources... I do like that one though.
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CountArioch

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Re: Hexblade - Does it suck?
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2009, 02:38:43 PM »
Ah, here it was. He apologises and everything.

Why does he think making the curse ability a swift action makes it better? 
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veekie

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Re: Hexblade - Does it suck?
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2009, 04:08:57 PM »
Ah, here it was. He apologises and everything.

Why does he think making the curse ability a swift action makes it better? 
At least the Hexblade gets to curse and hit people in the same round.
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ninjarabbit

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Re: Hexblade - Does it suck?
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2009, 05:58:19 PM »
Ah, here it was. He apologises and everything.

Why does he think making the curse ability a swift action makes it better? 
At least the Hexblade gets to curse and hit people in the same round.

Yeah but the one thing the hexblade's curse has going for it is that it's a free action (as well as aura of unluck). So in a single (usually 1st) round a hexblade can curse, activate it's aura of unluck, use a swift action (like minor shapeshift), and still do your normal actions.

Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: Hexblade - Does it suck?
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2009, 01:32:33 AM »
Maybe the idea was that, with the bonuses being given, the altering to a swift action would prevent a hexblade from doing too much per turn, and thus seeming overpowering (by less studied DM's) to allow for the fix to go through more smoothly? Just to not advertise that the class had been given a crack-shot as opposed to an energy boost. Or he simply could have thought that it helped the class; it WAs off the top of his head, and everyone has brain farts. I'd just ask that it be kept as a free action, with the other boosts, though it isn't terrible if changed to a swift action; really, it's not too bad of a change, just not a particularly good one.

Also, my DM liked the Aftercrescent fix best (for flavor and mechanic reasons he says; I think it's just because he's a warlock fan. Would allow the Ejo fix, but would prefer the AC, which might be beneficial, playing to his interests), and would be fine with me playing one in the campaign. So, I threw this together while reading the class and reading the hexblade handbook; I'm the only set-class player right now, but I might wind up being the main melee, so I put imp toughness i just in case. Any thoughts on the build?
[spoiler]
Human - AfterCresent's Hexblade 20 - Buy-off the Firesouled Template
(1) Dreadful Wrath
(h) Improved Toughness
(3) Power Attack
(H) Arcane Master [Level 5]
(6) Combat Expertise
(9) Improved Trip
(H) Vatic Gaze [Level 10]
(12) Flay Foe
(H) Ability Focus (Hexblade Curse) [Level 15]
(15) Combat Reflexes
(18) Robilar's Gambit
(H) Extra Invocation [Level 20]

Invocations:
Least: Beguiling Influence, Baleful Utterance, See the Unseen
Lesser: Flee the Scene, Bestow Curse, Voracious Dispelling
Greater: Nightmare's Made Real, Painful Slumber of Ages, Enervating Shadow, Doom Blade

I've been asked to not go full-out min/maxing, just to not overshadow the other players, which I think is reasonable what with him letting me play an altered class which he's usually reluctant to. Thus, no cheese. Also, for skills, intimidate is obvious, but diplo and bluff might be since I'll have a high charisma score, and might thus be the party leader (melee and cha kinda netted me that role, I think...), so keep that in mind. For equipment, I've been thinking that (see my avi for the basic theme of the guy) Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows (adds charisma as fire damage to attacks) and a Crimson Coat of Ipharaz for items. Fire goodness, and anything that helps add charisma to any/everything (Slippers of Battledancing(?), maybe, but how often might I move???) would be a good addition, so suggest anything; he's really flexible this game, so woot![/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Hexblade - Does it suck?
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2009, 04:08:36 AM »
Ah, here it was. He apologises and everything.
There is also this.

To me the class only has one use. And that is for the 4th level dark companion ability and that is meant to complement for a save reducing build. Like the Lich thing I posted on here a long time about that had somethign like an effective DC 46 save or die touch attack and 5 or 6 attacks per round. Hardly an example of the class being good though.
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6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
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johnboy069

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Re: Hexblade - Does it suck?
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2009, 11:15:56 PM »
I love the hexblade class as well. The only 2 things I wish it had more of were more curses per day (the feat from Dragon 339 helps a bit), and a broader spell list. I am not looking for damage spells, but I think they could use some necromancy spells or the summon undead ones from Heroes of Horror (I don't have Spell Compendium, and I refuse to pay $40 or more). The other abilities are fine imo (mettle, light armor, bab, and saves).
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