Re-Threading Character Concept; Duelist

[Flay Crimsonwind]

So I have a tendency to re-use this one character that has become my favorite to RP, and with the return of an old group of friends I played him with way back when, I'm revising him for the umpteenth time.

He's an intelligent, charismatic, but mostly quick guy, an assassin duelist, uses a bastard sword, and bases his style of swordsmanship off of movement and better mobility-use than his foes. He also tends to be the communicator and face of the group, so he had good Bluff and decent diplomacy with a mediocre charisma. He is chaotic neutral (no pansy CG), and I'd prefer him to be pure melee, non-spellcasting. When last I used him, he looked like this:
Human Hexblade 2 / Whirling Barbarian 2 / Ranger 1 / Avenging Executioner 4 / Dread Commando 5 / Dervish Dancer 6
[spoiler]
(1) Expeditious Dodge   
(h) Mobility      
(3) Power Attack      
(6) Combat Reflexes      
(9) Flay Foe      
(12) Combat Expertise   
(15) Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)
(Derv) Spring Attack      
(18) Robilar's Gambit      [/spoiler]

...pretty much in that order. Now I'm looking him over (we didn't play that campaign through past level 7...), and I'm wondering... is the possible +5d6 from DC and AE really worth the loss of the last four dervish levels, and the late level at which he obtains dervish.

Now I'm thinking, get into Dervish first, drop the DC and AE and maybe go with some other ranger-y class. I think the above mainly looked good since I loved the flavor of the commando with him.

If I drop the two classes, should I go full dervish for the thousand cuts, and if so, what should I fill the rest with? Feats, I'll move around once I have a better idea of some classes I'll be placing in the build. I can definitely use the SRd and complete series, and generally I can convince him of the races set, as well as one or two choice books (two and he thinks I'm getting too cheesy, so lets keep it down). I cannot use TOB.

I've got a while to get this together, since the group isn't all back here yet (so I can get playing the pally I currently have outta my system). So, what do you guys think I should do?

[GawainBS]

Sadly for you, ToB offers some of the best options for what you intent.
Your concept can be fulfilled by gish. Ever gave that a thought?

[woodenbandman]

I'd recommend you a bard/Sublime Chord gish. You basically are a really fast duelly type, and you can run around the battlefield with blinding speed, tank with your bard buffs, and get a bunch of attacks. It'd look a bit like Bard7(or so)/Swiftblade3/Sublime Chord2/Swiftblade+7, which will proceed your sublime chord CL to
15, and you can take your last level in Abjurant Champion or something. Shifting the Swiftblade down more results in more SC caster levels and fewer bard casting levels, which gets you higher and higher level spells. You have a really good BAB, pretty good spells, and you do pretty much what you want to do, which is toss out a bunch of attacks and run around the field.

[Loke]

Bard 8 / Soldier of light 2 / Sublime chord 2 / XXX not sure how to finish of the build from there, but it is a very solid gish start

SoL gives you cha to saves as well on second level, so you'll have rock solid saves. Can be substituted with paladin, but i prefer the SoL.

Race is not important, human or strongheart halfling for extra feat perhaps.

Bard 1 power attack, Practiced spellcaster(Bard)
Bard 2
Bard 3 Snowflake wardance
Bard 4
Bard 5
Bard 6 Words of Creation
Bard 7
Bard 8
Soldier of Light 1 Divine Might
Soldier of light 2
Sublime Chord 1
Sublime Chord 2 Arcane Strike



Then finish off with normal gish type classes like Eldritch knight, spellsword, abjurant champion etc. I'm away from books atm so cant check exactly wich ones id go for.

[Flay Crimsonwind]

Bards, maybe, though don't they tend to be late bloomers, since they've only got a handfull of buffs-per-day, poor BAB, The only problem I have with SFWD is that you can TWF, which is feat intensive, or do sucky PA, since you can only have one-handed weapons. Seeing as I have no form of extra damage (SA or such), I'm a little uncomfortable about going TWF and investing in it without as heavy a payoff as some 2H PA with a Dervish Dance. Actually, I'd prefer combo-ing Bard and Pally, burning music and turn attempts into damage with divine might and the aforementioned bard tricks, but this guy really isn't a lawful character (I'll mention that above...), and being CG with pally of freedom sucks.

Now, with swiftblade, this might be better (dunno if I'd go all ten levels though...). I usually don't go gish, either pure melee or pure casting (I like being best at one thing, not second at both), but it does what I'd like, so I'll think about it. But usually when I think gish, I think Duskblade, which would probably be the jumping point for me.

And yes, god I wish he'd allow ToB.....

Any strict melee ideas?

[Loke]

Soldier of light gives you turn undead, and divine grace, so can fuel Divine Might. It is in most respects better than paladin for this kind of thing. Check it out in Deities and Demigods, its hidden away at the back of the book.

[Flay Crimsonwind]

AH! Thanks, was wondering where the class was! For some reason I was hunting through CCh and BoED. In any case, danke, keep 'em coming!

[Kuroimaken]

Soldier of light gives you turn undead, and divine grace, so can fuel Divine Might. It is in most respects better than paladin for this kind of thing. Check it out in Deities and Demigods, its hidden away at the back of the book.

It does require you to be good, though.

[Flay Crimsonwind]

Soldier of light gives you turn undead, and divine grace, so can fuel Divine Might. It is in most respects better than paladin for this kind of thing. Check it out in Deities and Demigods, its hidden away at the back of the book.

It does require you to be good, though.

Ah, well then, thank you for clearing that up.

CG -_-............

[Loke]

Ahh yeah just saw the Chaotic Neutral part in the OP. Chaotic Good is not that pansy imo! most my chars are CG!!!!

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

You can make a rather impressive duelist with 9 levels of Fighter. "Uneven levels of Fighter? Wha-? Why?" you say? Here comes the pain.

There's a couple of Fighter variants and a single essential feat involved in this little ditty. The first and most important being the Zhentarim Soldier, which I'm nearly positive is from the online web enhancement for Champions of Valor. The second is the Sneak Attack variant Fighter from Unearthed Arcana/SRD. The feat in question is Imperious Command, from Drow of the Underdark.

At level 9, you have the ability to Intimidate as a swift action, coupled with Imperious Command means that anyone afraid of you will become subject to your 5d6 Sneak Attack dice. Every round.

I say this can be called a duelist because when you "intimidate" your opponent, you can roleplay it as cutting into your foe with your quick witted words. Not to mention the above is not feat dependant or MAD in the least. One feat, and a half decent CHA would do with a level of Marshal at 10th.

[GawainBS]

Bards, maybe, though don't they tend to be late bloomers, since they've only got a handfull of buffs-per-day, poor BAB, The only problem I have with SFWD is that you can TWF, which is feat intensive, or do sucky PA, since you can only have one-handed weapons. Seeing as I have no form of extra damage (SA or such), I'm a little uncomfortable about going TWF and investing in it without as heavy a payoff as some 2H PA with a Dervish Dance. Actually, I'd prefer combo-ing Bard and Pally, burning music and turn attempts into damage with divine might and the aforementioned bard tricks, but this guy really isn't a lawful character (I'll mention that above...), and being CG with pally of freedom sucks.

Now, with swiftblade, this might be better (dunno if I'd go all ten levels though...). I usually don't go gish, either pure melee or pure casting (I like being best at one thing, not second at both), but it does what I'd like, so I'll think about it. But usually when I think gish, I think Duskblade, which would probably be the jumping point for me.

And yes, god I wish he'd allow ToB.....

Any strict melee ideas?

Gishes are better meleefighters than pure meleefighters. Swiftblade would be an excellent class choice, topped off with Abjurant Champion. You can easily emulate a duelist-type character with that set-up: an unarmoured, mobile, quick fighter.

[Flay Crimsonwind]

If I was going to go gish-warrior, I'd just go Duskblade. However, for the gish-builds listed above, I'd probably try ninjarabbit's Beguiler 8/swiftblade 6/Abjurantchampion 5/dragonslayer 1 build, or go with a Wiz 2 / full bab class 4 / Abj Champ 5 / Swiftblade 9 and use practiced spellcaster to get 9th level spells and full attack power. Again though, not sure I'm loving the feel of the gish...

Alternatively, I could go Hexblade / Dervish. The curse lets me utilize PA or combat expertise better (since the opponent has a nice, buffable penalty...), which is only helped more by the fact I have an automatic +5 to hit thanks to dancing. So I can really max out PA or CE with a cursed foe/foes while dancing. Sometimes, the simpler is better. Also, back when, my DM took Chaos Rage (like practiced spellcaster for rage) and made a bunch more for other classes, and I'm sure I could get one for a hexblade's curses.

The gish is still probably harder to kill....

[Kuroimaken]

I've got a short question for you... how much does survivability really matter for you?

Cuz, y'know, mages make better fighters than fighters.

[Flay Crimsonwind]

The thing is, survivability has never been an incredible problem, as long as I don't RP myself into a shit-hole. I think that the DM has taken your last statement into account, at least in the games I've played with him.

[GawainBS]

Practised Spellcaster doesn't grant you access to higher level spells, just an increased caster level.