Author Topic: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game  (Read 44266 times)

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Justice

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2009, 06:08:53 PM »
Typically I go to the "Just kick them out" advice when I'm sick of hearing about a person bitch about another player. If they ask for advice or help thats a different story, but when I hear "Such and Such is such a douche, they keep ruining my game!" every week for a number of months... then I jump to the "Fuck um, boot um." advice.

Normally, I'm pro-communication. Just talk to the person about whats bothering you. Nine times out of ten the situation will change and those few times that it doesn't are typically when the other person is offended and doesn't come back.

Meg

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2009, 10:53:38 PM »
Normally, I'm pro-communication. Just talk to the person about whats bothering you. Nine times out of ten the situation will change and those few times that it doesn't are typically when the other person is offended and doesn't come back.

Thanks for bringing this up!

Our next two episodes are how to talk to them.  And we go into it so deeply because I can guarantee EVERYONE needs improvement and whoever is doing the talking is probably making the situation worse.

Of those 9 times out of 10 that the situation changes, I bet a lot of them are just for the short term because too many people (we sort of assume it's the GMs) talk at the person.  "Look, you've got to cut out XYZ or I'm going to boot you."  From a communication perspective, there are about 12 things wrong with that statement.  We're going to share specific strategies to make the "just talk to them" process go better.
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Justice

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2009, 11:11:27 PM »
Normally, I'm pro-communication. Just talk to the person about whats bothering you. Nine times out of ten the situation will change and those few times that it doesn't are typically when the other person is offended and doesn't come back.

Thanks for bringing this up!

Our next two episodes are how to talk to them.  And we go into it so deeply because I can guarantee EVERYONE needs improvement and whoever is doing the talking is probably making the situation worse.

Of those 9 times out of 10 that the situation changes, I bet a lot of them are just for the short term because too many people (we sort of assume it's the GMs) talk at the person.  "Look, you've got to cut out XYZ or I'm going to boot you."  From a communication perspective, there are about 12 things wrong with that statement.  We're going to share specific strategies to make the "just talk to them" process go better.

Gah, I hate hearing the "Do X or I'll do Y". I've heard it in groups before and when I asked why I should the response was typically "Because I'll do Y if you don't do X"

I prefer explanations and discussions. Honestly, I typically start the conversation by asking non aggressive questions. "So, I noticed you do X alot? Why is that?"

Of course, I'm sure you'll cover all this in your episode so I'll zip it. :P

Meg

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2009, 11:20:26 PM »
Did you read our script?

 ;) Naw, the advice I took from 4 different sources- some well known and some not at all, but all with a similar message.  Some of it is sort of basic and extremely important, like your example, and some is extremely detailed but makes a big subconscious difference, like where you sit and how you angle your body when you talk to the person.

For this episode though... no, I'll start a new post so it doesn't get lost.
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Meg

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #64 on: March 18, 2009, 11:21:54 PM »
In this episode, Josh did most of the editing so I'm curious about a couple of things:
Did you notice the music is screwed up?  Is it only me and my nitpicky perfectionism that noticed?
He put in quite a few of our "funny cut material", not just one.  Thoughts?
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Graf

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #65 on: March 19, 2009, 02:37:12 AM »
<modified post> original tone was not excellent

I felt like the first 40 minutes of the podcast were really an attempt to rebutt what I see is as a non-issue (i.e. the attitude of a couple of annoying people on the internet)

I think it would have been more productive if you focused more succinctly on the issue of problem groups.
Starting out with "don't kick people out" limits the ability to analyze the situation.

Start with identification of the problem before deciding how you're going to resolve it and all that.

Just my feeling having seen people waste years of their lives dealing with assholes every Sunday.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 02:43:45 AM by Graf »

Josh

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #66 on: March 19, 2009, 03:22:20 AM »
<modified post> original tone was not excellent

I felt like the first 40 minutes of the podcast were really an attempt to rebutt what I see is as a non-issue (i.e. the attitude of a couple of annoying people on the internet)
Well, you may see it that way, and that's good. 

I have had this argument, many, many times.  And these issues come up a lot.  So it is better to nip it in the bud.


Quote
I think it would have been more productive if you focused more succinctly on the issue of problem groups.
Starting out with "don't kick people out" limits the ability to analyze the situation.

Start with identification of the problem before deciding how you're going to resolve it and all that.

Just my feeling having seen people waste years of their lives dealing with assholes every Sunday.

How does it limit the situation? If anything the opposite is true.

For people "wasting their time" this is the best advice.  Wait for the rest of the discussion to round things out.
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Meg

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #67 on: March 19, 2009, 03:32:06 AM »
I love when I hear people say this is a nonissue.  Great!  May your experiences not be jaded!

I can't even tell you how many convention panels I've been at that harp on and on and on and have an entire room filled with people who's first answer is always "kick them out!"  I can't even explain how many "What's a GM to Do" threads on the WotC message boards gave the advice "just kick them out!".  If that's not your perception, you've had great experiences and I'm happy for you!

For your point #3- I don't think 80% of gamers have poor conflict resolution skills.  I think about 90% of people have mediocre to poor skills.  I can say with all certainty that you and every single person here (myself doubly included) have screwed up when communicating more than once.  Our next 2 episodes are all about that because "just talk to them" is much much harder than saying the words. 
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woodenbandman

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #68 on: March 19, 2009, 04:04:37 AM »
I'm listening to this and now I kinda see where you're coming from. I do agree that you shouldn't just OMGBAN people, and that you should give them a chance to change and give yourself a chance to accommodate them, and that asking people to leave is the good way to do it.

However, sometimes a person's just a dick.

Zeke

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #69 on: March 19, 2009, 03:18:00 PM »
When we say "you shouldn't kick people out" we mean it like "don't punch your Grandma in the face." There are situations that require popping nanna in her dome, but it's still a good rule. Putting the knuckles to Memere should always be a lst resort and entered into only when there is no other option.

Justice

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #70 on: March 19, 2009, 03:21:21 PM »
When we say "you shouldn't kick people out" we mean it like "don't punch your Grandma in the face." There are situations that require popping nanna in her dome, but it's still a good rule. Putting the knuckles to Memere should always be a lst resort and entered into only when there is no other option.

What if your Grandma is in Fight Club? Then can it be the first resort?

Zeke

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2009, 03:24:52 PM »
I love it when people make my point for me.

Justice

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #72 on: March 19, 2009, 03:26:51 PM »
I love it when people make my point for me.

Just trying to get clarification.  :D

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #73 on: March 19, 2009, 04:04:22 PM »
as always - very nice episode.

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #74 on: March 19, 2009, 06:31:18 PM »
I have a problem with your idea of being polite to other players. When I was a DM (back in 7th grade) I had no respect for my players, when I was a player (still 7th grade) I STILL didn't have respect for the players. Maybe this makes me a bad person, but if I am not shown respect I do not show respect.
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Josh

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #75 on: March 19, 2009, 06:44:21 PM »
First off, I am shocked that no one respects you. 

You should be respectful of people because they deserve it.  Not because they reciprocate.

And you should act like a person worthy of respect. Not demand it.
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Robert Bohl

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #76 on: March 19, 2009, 06:47:18 PM »
I'll say it til it's acknowledged: People act like assholes because they're trying to get something they want, not because they enjoy being assholes. Figure out what they want, and figure out how whether it's possible to the group to deliver it and for you to still have fun.

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #77 on: March 19, 2009, 06:55:53 PM »
First off, I am shocked that no one respects you.

I really hope your being sarcastic
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Josh

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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #78 on: March 19, 2009, 07:03:53 PM »
The whole people are not just jerks, is in part 4 of this series.
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Re: Episode 36: Don't Kick People out of your game
« Reply #79 on: March 19, 2009, 07:54:10 PM »
Excellent.