Author Topic: Nonassociated classes and DM douchebaggery?  (Read 2255 times)

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CountArioch

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Nonassociated classes and DM douchebaggery?
« on: January 09, 2009, 03:58:35 AM »
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Prime32

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Re: Nonassociated classes and DM douchebaggery?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2009, 09:35:34 AM »
I previously pointed out the idea of a tarrasque with 48 levels of wizard versus a human with 48 levels of wizard. Think about it.
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CountArioch

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Re: Nonassociated classes and DM douchebaggery?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2009, 11:40:31 AM »
I'm thinking about it, but I don't see the connection.  I'm talking about this one particular instance, not every possible combination of nonassociated class levels and such.
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Brainpiercing

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Re: Nonassociated classes and DM douchebaggery?
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2009, 12:18:10 PM »
Just guestimate it?

It really depends on many things. If you have a certain concept which will work with that combination of classes, AND you give it WBL of at least a 10th level player, then of course you're at CR10+.
If you give it Elite Array or a point-buy you're probably at CR12 or more.

If it ends up with a lot of useless abilities (For instance Int-based casting with 10Int) and doesn't get WBL, then probably you can easily ignore the Beguiler levels mostly, because all the PCs need to do is hit it a little more. So halving and rounding down the levels for the CR calculation seems fine. So unless Assassin levels DO fit the concept, you could also cut those in half, I guess, or use a two-thirds progression, perhaps.

My suggestion:

Non-concept, actually unassociated, even above HD=Class levels: Everything halved, CR 9
Conceptually sound but levels don't match up well with the critter: CR10
Conceptually sound and stringent, but no WBL and no good array: CR11+ (Like Beguiler 10 with at least 15-16Int with items)
Everything fitting into place and WBL for class levels: CR14 or even higher
« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 12:29:32 PM by Brainpiercing »

CountArioch

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Re: Nonassociated classes and DM douchebaggery?
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2009, 12:35:18 PM »
Well, all classed NPCs that I make get the elite array, so the int would be 15+.  I would give the NPC the gear of an NPC of whatever CR I pick.

I might just trim off the extraneous hit dice and just give it the class abilities without the extra hit dice, skill points, and saves.  (Might just give it 10 or so hit dice with the abilities of a 5th level assassin and a 5th level beguiler, I've been known to do that since most of the interesting things I try to to end up being too bloated in hit dice and CR.)

The idea is that really, this isn't a leveled up troll, this is a unique troll species in my world.  I'm changing things around for a high level campaign, and my vision of the "forest troll" is a tricky bastid.  He's sneaky and has some decent magical ability that focuses more on being a tricky bastid than blowing shit up.

Edit:  Oh, and "just guesstimate it" is not helpful.  You can assume that since I bothered to ask, that I am not good at guesstimating CR at all.  Otherwise, I would have done that without asking for advice. 
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veekie

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Re: Nonassociated classes and DM douchebaggery?
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2009, 01:08:14 PM »
Compare the resultant saves, DCs(highest and average), AC, damage and mobility with critters of the desired CR, takes a while, but probably gives a fairly good guess of the actual CR.
I personally gestalt the classes with the some of the monster HD until it makes a bit more sense. You tend to get more powers and less supersaves, excessive HD with that.
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Re: Nonassociated classes and DM douchebaggery?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2009, 02:56:29 AM »
Compare the resultant saves, DCs(highest and average), AC, damage and mobility with critters of the desired CR, takes a while, but probably gives a fairly good guess of the actual CR.
I personally gestalt the classes with the some of the monster HD until it makes a bit more sense. You tend to get more powers and less supersaves, excessive HD with that.
+1. I'm a big of this method. Grab 3-4 CR 9s and 11s (preferable from different books) and see how it stands up in saves, HP, attach bonus, etc. Then you can adjust as appropriate. I've found it's a little extra work, but will avoid accidental TPKs from DM error.
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