Author Topic: Holy word warmage  (Read 5114 times)

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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Holy word warmage
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2008, 05:16:53 PM »
...except that that ignores long precedent in multiple areas.

A class that increases your caster level is not, in and of itself, a spellcasting class; spellcasting class is defined as a class with a spell list.  This was something that was hashed out a long time ago, when people started saying "Hey!  I can take one level of Mystic Theurge," and then have my Incantatrix class advance my Mystic Theurge spellcasting!

Sounds good, but Mystic Theurge HAS no spellcasting in and of itself; ergo, it is not a "spellcasting class."

I'm trying to remember the exact example originally referenced.  It was a PrC that advanced spellcasting, but didn't require spellcasting to get in.  It was pointed out that, if you entered the class without prior spellcasting, you didn't GAIN any.  This was the illustration for why CL-advancing classes are not spellcasting classes.

Thus, levels in such classes are not "levels in a spellcasting class."

I'll try to dig up the applicable references, but given the reconfiguration of the Wizards website, heaven only knows if I'll be successful.

the class your talking about is Platinum Knight from Draconomicon. There could be others but i just came across that one while looking for something else.
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Caelic

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Re: Holy word warmage
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2008, 08:49:20 PM »

2) Stop saying this! It is not "levels in a spellcasting class" It's "[1/2] your level (No s) in any spellcasting classes."


Just so.  If I have six levels of wizard, four levels of master specialist, and one level of Ur Priest, though, what is "1/2 my level in any spellcasting classes?"  Of those three classes, two are (according to precedent and ruling) spellcasting classes--Wizard and Ur Priest.  My Ur Priest caster level would thus, by a strict reading, be four--three for Wizard plus one for Ur Priest.

I don't disagree that this method results in relatively low caster levels for Ur Priest.  I don't disagree that it's logical to use caster level.  I don't disagree that it works well in most cases (though the exceptions are doozies.) 

I simply disagree that it's the canon interpretation, given all of the points against it.
I simply disagree that it's

Runestar

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Re: Holy word warmage
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2008, 10:55:21 PM »
Exalted arcanist (BOED) also adds holy word to your spell list, though you give up a caster level. Not sure what avenues he has for boosting his caster level though, I always felt that clerics did it best, with items such as karma beads and ankhs of ascension.

Which anyone else can hack with UMD.

Problem is that ankh requires you to sac a divine spell slot to power it. Any way to simulate that with an arcane caster? Don't think even UMD can hack that.

Karma beads also require the wearer to be able to cast divine spells. Can we bypass that using UMD? UMD is fairly specific in what you can simulate with it...
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Kaelik

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Re: Holy word warmage
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2008, 02:17:17 AM »
Just so.  If I have six levels of wizard, four levels of master specialist, and one level of Ur Priest, though, what is "1/2 my level in any spellcasting classes?"  Of those three classes, two are (according to precedent and ruling) spellcasting classes--Wizard and Ur Priest.  My Ur Priest caster level would thus, by a strict reading, be four--three for Wizard plus one for Ur Priest.

I don't disagree that this method results in relatively low caster levels for Ur Priest.  I don't disagree that it's logical to use caster level.  I don't disagree that it works well in most cases (though the exceptions are doozies.) 

I simply disagree that it's the canon interpretation, given all of the points against it.
I simply disagree that it's

No, because your level in the Wizard class is not 6. It's not anything. You can't have a level in a class. You can have levels, but your actual level can only be a single number, like for example your CL.

Seriously you can't have a level in a spellcasting class.

Caelic

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Re: Holy word warmage
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2008, 02:32:38 PM »

No, because your level in the Wizard class is not 6. It's not anything. You can't have a level in a class. You can have levels, but your actual level can only be a single number, like for example your CL.

Seriously you can't have a level in a spellcasting class.



That's a pretty big claim.  Do you have a rules citation to back it up?  Given the number of feats and prestige classes which explicitly require a specific level in a specific class, I have no idea where you find support for this position, given this entry in the glossary:


1. class level  A character's level in a single class.  Class features generally depend on class level rather than character level.

That explicitly contradicts your claim.  Yes, you CAN have a "level in a class," and, yes, you keep track of it separately from your overall character level.

Are you seriously claiming that "level in class X" is NOT the same as "Class level in X?"  On what basis?
« Last Edit: December 31, 2008, 02:37:03 PM by Caelic »

iconoplast

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Re: Holy word warmage
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2008, 03:53:13 PM »
I heard someone talk about a holy word warmage that could boost caster level to ridiculous amounts a while back, and i can't seem to find anything about it, anyone care to guide me to where i can find it, or the gist of the build?

I haven't seen it with a Warmage base (and I can't think of why warmage would work better than any other class) - I would probably go Spellthief 1 / Wizard / Nar Demonbinder / Ultimate Magus, and use Master Spellthief & Ultimate Magus to boost your ND caster level.