Author Topic: dragon PC races  (Read 39338 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Havok4

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2144
  • It can only be attributable to human error.
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #80 on: April 22, 2010, 03:43:43 PM »
The inconsistency in the various ways to take monsters as class levels does indeed cause great confusion. I wish WotC had spent more time on those.

Anklebite

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2009
  • I shall play you the song of my people.
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #81 on: April 22, 2010, 03:58:28 PM »
I wish WotC had
you could write a book several novels an encyclopedia series containing nothing but sentences starting with those four words.
I do not suffer from paranoia; I enjoy every second of it.
Pioneer of the Ultimate Magus + Sublime Chord + Ultimate Magus combo

Havok4

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2144
  • It can only be attributable to human error.
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #82 on: April 22, 2010, 04:00:36 PM »
I wish WotC had
you could write a book several novels an encyclopedia series containing nothing but sentences starting with those four words.
True, and another filled with "I wish WotC didn't", like make half the things in CPsi or make any of the base classes in complete warrior.

Anklebite

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2009
  • I shall play you the song of my people.
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #83 on: April 22, 2010, 04:10:06 PM »
I wish WotC had
you could write a book several novels an encyclopedia series containing nothing but sentences starting with those four words.
True, and another filled with "I wish WotC didn't", like make half the things in CPsi or make any of the base classes in complete warrior.
now now, swashbuckler can actually be useful; but yes, that's a whole nother cyclopedia WOTCica.
I do not suffer from paranoia; I enjoy every second of it.
Pioneer of the Ultimate Magus + Sublime Chord + Ultimate Magus combo

Nunkuruji

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #84 on: April 22, 2010, 05:13:39 PM »
The real fun is the fact you are a true dragon.

Wyrmlings are less than 6 years old.
Very Young is 6~15, Young is 16~25 & Juvenile is 26~50.

River's Ravages (DL:LofT) is a 2nd level wizard/sorcerer spell that ages you two years per caster level as a temporary debuff.

Pause for thought.

...

Yeah. It's awesome.
At ECL 10, with Loredrake & LA buy off. You'll have gotten rid of the LA and be packing 9/10 casting. You buff using River's Ravages and temporally age your self 18 years kicking you into the Young age category granting: 6 dragon levels (+6 bab, +6d10+(conmod*6)hp, +3 saves, more skills, 2 feats, +1 to an ability score), +6 natural AC, +4 str/int, +2 con/wis/cha, four stacking levels of sorcerer spellcasting, and +10 on saves against any 4th level or lower spell. Best of all, as a temporary debuff there isn't a reason for the DM to award XP gains to you as if you actually had those 6 HD. You don't gain less XP for persisting a dozen buffs as a cleric making you stronger than many races with LA for their inferior abilities or even gain XP for killing dozens of monsters that happen to be summons so River's Ravages is totally fine.



sweet

Rebel7284

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1585
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #85 on: April 22, 2010, 07:45:46 PM »
Doesn't Bestow Greater Curse also age by a category?  It IS a higher level spell but it would possibly stack?
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

Mushroom

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 321
    • Email
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #86 on: April 22, 2010, 09:50:56 PM »
Doesn't Bestow Greater Curse also age by a category?  It IS a higher level spell but it would possibly stack?
Not to mention it would be permanent until dispelled

Also, does one grab the LA for advancing an age category?

SorO_Lost

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #87 on: April 22, 2010, 10:17:27 PM »
It's a different named spell that has a different effect (river ages you X years, curse just kicks you into the next age category) of course it stacks. Bestow Curse is what you would do on the last level you play. Being permanent I can see some grounds for a DM to rule your only fixable by wish buff to face some form of XP penalty.

TO wise, hecks yeah. By using River's Ravages alone at the 15th level you can kick your self up to 21 HD and pick up an epic feat, level 17 means you can take Epic Spell Casting. Bestow Curse lowers the level you'll have to be to start squeezing epic abilities in.

***

@TML, Didn't know about that link, I go for the books and in the books an entirely different thing doesn't work like that. Apples and oranges.
"TL;DR?"
Dunno what that means. Was my DL:LotT too old to know? It's Dragonlance - Legends of the Twins.
It's a Dragonlance book detailing a lot of time traveling stuff including theories on altering the past, protecting it, etc. I'd pick it up if you can but you'll be nerfed COP wise and we're not talking about how everyone settled on true answers are so true that they force time to be unalterable but direct points on only with direct action a deity can influence time and mortals are flat out banned from it outside of a DM controlled chance and action assuming you're chaotic aligned and trying to screw with time.

Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Bastian

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 540
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #88 on: April 23, 2010, 12:20:59 PM »
"TL;DR?"
Dunno what that means.
Too Long; Didn't Read

SorO_Lost

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #89 on: April 23, 2010, 02:39:38 PM »
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Nunkuruji

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #90 on: April 23, 2010, 04:34:15 PM »
Looking back through some notes on sample builds

The issue with the cohort became the ECL17 cap pre-epic. Improved Cohort doesn't really help unless your leadership score sucks, and Dragon Cohort was explicitly limited to the table (unless DM approves otherwise I suppose).

What I was inevitably looking for was retaining the Cleric list, and thus avoiding the Sovereign Archetype while fitting in War Weaver 5 and Spellguard4 in order to weave personal spells. Barring Legacy Champion tricks. Mindbender/Mindsight for general scouting.

The options for Draconic Auras and Dragon Pacts also are somewhat interesting options as well.


ECL20

Wyrmlings (Small)

Vanilla build
LA2 HD4 Wyrmling Steel Dragon / Sorcerer 5 / War Weaver 5 / SpellGuard 4
Caster Level 14th, 7th level spells


Flaws, Versatile-Heighten Early Entry, Practiced Spellcaster
LA2 HD4 Steel Dragon / Sorcerer 2 / MindBender 1 / War Weaver 5 / SpellGuard 4 / Arcane 2
Caster Level 14th, 7th level spells


LA-buyoff, Flaws, Versatile-Heighten Early Entry, Practiced Spellcaster
LA2(buyoff) HD4 Steel Dragon / Sorcerer 2 / MindBender 1 / War Weaver 5 / SpellGuard 4 / Arcane 4
Caster Level 16th, 8th level spells



Young (Medium, riding)

Versatile-Heighten Early Entry
LA4 HD10 Young Steel Dragon / War Weaver 5 / Arcane 1


LA-buyoff, Versatile-Heighten Early Entry
LA3(buyoff) LA1 HD10 Young Steel Dragon / War Weaver 5 / Spellguard 4
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 05:33:07 PM by Nunkuruji »

Havok4

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2144
  • It can only be attributable to human error.
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #91 on: April 23, 2010, 05:49:38 PM »
Abjurant champion seems like it would be a good class to take on a steel dragon character as you only 1 more point of BaB to qualify.

Surreal

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1430
    • Email
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #92 on: April 28, 2010, 05:08:57 AM »
Added the Spire Dragon from Sharn: City of Towers. Tied for lowest HD/LA, has evasion and blindsense.
---
"The late, sedate, and no to great." ~Surreal

Some Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc.
Archived version of the above with working links

The Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them
The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis

Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category
Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities
Alternative Class Features
alternative ways to get class skills

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #93 on: April 28, 2010, 05:24:27 AM »
Could you mention the easy entry for Singer of Concordance?  It seems like useful info, and is very easy to overlook.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Surreal

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1430
    • Email
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #94 on: April 28, 2010, 05:34:02 AM »
Where is the exact page that states True Dragons automatically qualify for anything that requires Dragonblood? I've seen it mentioned several times here.
---
"The late, sedate, and no to great." ~Surreal

Some Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc.
Archived version of the above with working links

The Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them
The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis

Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category
Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities
Alternative Class Features
alternative ways to get class skills

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #95 on: April 28, 2010, 05:36:45 AM »
Where is the exact page that states True Dragons automatically qualify for anything that requires Dragonblood? I've seen it mentioned several times here.

RotD Page 4, sidebar, under "dragonblood subtype"
Quote
Dragons automatically qualify for any classes, prestige classes, racial substitution levels, feats, powers, or spells that require the dragonblood subtype.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Surreal

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1430
    • Email
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #96 on: April 28, 2010, 06:18:31 AM »
Hmm, I see. It's a poorly worded paragraph (no surprise there)... I think the intent was that dragons qualify for anything that requires dragonblood, but doesn't bypass the other requirements. As RAW though... *shrug* I'll include it for the sake of completeness.
---
"The late, sedate, and no to great." ~Surreal

Some Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc.
Archived version of the above with working links

The Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them
The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis

Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category
Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities
Alternative Class Features
alternative ways to get class skills

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #97 on: April 28, 2010, 02:50:42 PM »
Hmm, I see. It's a poorly worded paragraph (no surprise there)... I think the intent was that dragons qualify for anything that requires dragonblood, but doesn't bypass the other requirements. As RAW though... *shrug* I'll include it for the sake of completeness.
Intent seems to be to allow true dragons (who can't cast divine spells) into singer of concordance.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Nunkuruji

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #98 on: April 28, 2010, 04:16:54 PM »
Hmm, I see. It's a poorly worded paragraph (no surprise there)... I think the intent was that dragons qualify for anything that requires dragonblood, but doesn't bypass the other requirements. As RAW though... *shrug* I'll include it for the sake of completeness.
Intent seems to be to allow true dragons (who can't cast divine spells) into singer of concordance.

They do have divine conversion methods, such as Sacred Warder, Unholy Ravager and Dispassionate Watcher PrCs in Draconomicon.

SorO_Lost

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
Re: dragon PC races
« Reply #99 on: April 28, 2010, 05:14:19 PM »
Added the Spire Dragon from Sharn: City of Towers. Tied for lowest HD/LA, has evasion and blindsense.
All true dragons sport blindsense (is it one?), evasion is nice though.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]