Author Topic: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.  (Read 14947 times)

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Kaelik

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2008, 02:59:37 PM »
http://invisiblecastle.com/stats/view/19337/

I think you only need 1 roll. 9 minimum, and that's not likely.

Check out my stats: 18/18/18/17/16/15.

My lowest score is the Elite Arrays high.

Judging Eagle

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2008, 03:26:48 PM »
No on the 8 items imo. At least not right off the bat.

My suggestion is "when" magic items are handed out we get a max of 1 + 1 per Hit Dice/character level (so a level 4 character isn't running around with 8 items, they have 5). It keeps power creep slowed down.

For "other" magic items, I'd say that almost any currently created magic item under 15k is viable once the Wish economy is available. The only things that the BoG limits is "when" a spellcaster can craft an item.

A wizard can only create one item of their caster level per level. If they have 4 caster levels more than the item takes (or 2 if they create it in it's Iconic form) then they can make as many as they want.

After the first adventure I'm going to get one of my character's children apprenticed to a wizard, then grab leadership at level 6 to have a viable spellcaster to craft items.  :lmao

I'm actually kidding on the stats (now, mostly b/c giving him "real" stats at a later point will be a pain in the ass), but I'm going to play him as a "farmer". A sneakish Human fighter.

[Edit]: Rolling low is rather hard with this system. I'm going to give it one more shot and see what I get.
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Calibron

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2008, 03:41:36 PM »
Until we can craft magic items of our own we should mostly be content just relying on whatever Prak hands out in the loot.  Once we can craft our own items we should stick to the 8 item limit.  I think it'd be nice to start out 2nd level, 1st level is just too fragile.

Wow, Kaelik, I thought my stats were high.

Kaelik

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2008, 04:07:12 PM »
Judging Eagle, thanks for making no sense whatsoever and being entirely a negative force.

8 Items is a maximum, not a minimum.

It doesn't even matter if we aren't using Book of Gears items.

And if we actually play with Wish economy rules, once again, not having an item limit results in instant retardation. Infinity 14000gp items breaks the game with out an item limit, seriously, infinity nightsticks and pearls of power is bad.

Cynic

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STR 16, DEX 16, CON 13, INT 16, WIS 18, CHA 17

Sorry guys, i'll have my character done my tonight. Christmas prep is going full swing.

Prak, the Mad

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2008, 05:40:00 PM »
This game is relevant to my interests. If it's possible, I'd like that tome primer, via PM. thanks
Ok, I'm booting up the computer the file is on as I type, I'll figure out sending files over pm and get it out to everyone.

Quote from: Calibron
Cool here're my guy's stats, and here's his character sheet.
look's like the sheet isn't set to public.
Quote
Since this is level 1 I'm guessing when it comes to equipment we can have any kind of armor and shields that aren't made out of weird materials except for Full Plate, and any random assortment of non-magical adventuring junk that isn't very expensive.  'zat about right?
let's say one suit of non-magical, non-exotic armour, and a shield if desired, One main melee and one back up, one ranged if desired, and random adventuring gear that isn't very expensive.

Quote from: Kaelik
1) Lets do second level.
Make your case, I'd rather run at first, but I'm willing to hear an arguement for 2nd.

Quote from: woodenbandman
Okay, I'm officially applying for a spot here, please don't hate for this character:

Also, are we really gonna roll stats? if so, how many roll sets do we get? Statline, as well as full character sheet: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=98730 2nd level, btw.
Statline's good, character looks good, except for a few things, like you forgot your base ref save. ANd yeah, roll stats, as others have said, it's minimum nine, and even then. Also, I'm fairly generous with stats, if you don't like your first roll, roll two more stat lines and pick the one you like best.

for hit die, reroll the bottom quarter of your HD(round up). (1s on a d4, 1-2 on a d6 or d8, 3 on a d10 or d12) Max at first, of course.
This isn't necessary at the moment unless Kaelik convinces me to do 2nd level.

Quote from: JE
No on the 8 items imo. At least not right off the bat.

My suggestion is "when" magic items are handed out we get a max of 1 + 1 per Hit Dice/character level (so a level 4 character isn't running around with 8 items, they have 5). It keeps power creep slowed down.

For "other" magic items, I'd say that almost any currently created magic item under 15k is viable once the Wish economy is available. The only things that the BoG limits is "when" a spellcaster can craft an item.

A wizard can only create one item of their caster level per level. If they have 4 caster levels more than the item takes (or 2 if they create it in it's Iconic form) then they can make as many as they want.
I like that idea, 1+HD/ChLv as Magic item max, that sounds good.

Quote
After the first adventure I'm going to get one of my character's children apprenticed to a wizard, then grab leadership at level 6 to have a viable spellcaster to craft items.  Laugh
Sound's good, I might have you play out one of those "You wanna be a what!?" moments with him, but that's not a problem.

Quote
I'm actually kidding on the stats (now, mostly b/c giving him "real" stats at a later point will be a pain in the ass), but I'm going to play him as a "farmer". A sneakish Human fighter.

[Edit]: Rolling low is rather hard with this system. I'm going to give it one more shot and see what I get
If you want a specific low stat line, let me know, and I'll either say yay or nay. If you want to start with nines and get real stats later, that can be arranged, people are just kinda have to go with a few things, but it shouldn't be a problem (the "going with things", that is), as immediately facing even this guy's "dragon" would be suicidal at this point.

Calibron makes another vote for 2nd level, which, taking Wooden's character as a vote means three for 2nd. A vote, in itself, is enough of an argument that I'm willing to go 2nd.

Quote from: Kaelik
Judging Eagle, thanks for making no sense whatsoever and being entirely a negative force.

8 Items is a maximum, not a minimum.

It doesn't even matter if we aren't using Book of Gears items.

And if we actually play with Wish economy rules, once again, not having an item limit results in instant retardation. Infinity 14000gp items breaks the game with out an item limit, seriously, infinity nightsticks and pearls of power is bad.
I don't think he was proposing the 1+HD past 7th level, just until we get to an 8 item max. I personally prefer the "magical crap coming out your ears" model, but I do want to see how a cap on items works out, so, I'm going with JE's suggestion until you guys hit seventh level at which point it becomes max 8 items.

Cynic, no problem, I just want you guys to have, at least, a group and characters (not stats, just who and what you're playing) figured by, let's say Dec. 24th 10pm GMT. (which, for me, is 2pm), or as close to that as possible. If that happens, then we can do a special yule thing two hours later, assuming that works for people, if the timing doesn't work too well for people, well, it's PBP so it's not a big deal.

If that doesn't work out, well, then we can do what I have planned later, like just before we start the actual adventure, so it's not a big deal.

edit: There is one spot left, Tshern, if you'd like to play, say so, I've got the Tome Primer to send out, and this at least preserves the spot for you until you look at that, if not, well, then I'll move on and probably cut it here.

Players:
Judging Eagle with the amazing commmoner
Woodenbandman with the Joker
Calibron with a tiefling fighter
Kaelik with a Summoner
Cynic with a marshal

if you guys change your mind on characters, it's not a problem, just let me know.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 05:48:44 PM by Prak, the Mad »

Judging Eagle

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2008, 05:54:12 PM »
Kaelik,

The nightsticks would still burn up a slot, and more importantly keep that slot burned up. Since you're still "using" the abilities of the item if the item is fueling an ongoing effect. The only time an expended Nightstick won't take up a slot is if you're not getting a benefit from it naow (i.e. you used it to Turn Undead). We've discussed this before, and I already answered that concern. Infinite Night Sticks can't give infinite persistant spells.

The PoP are sort of like spell scrolls. Infinite amounts of scrolls isn't a big deal, I've had games where the full caster cast spells every round and it was fine.

Pearls of Power would only allow infinite uses of the same spells, and well, actually, it doesn't matter. You can just get a wand that takes up an item slot and cast a spell out of it every round. Seriously, if you want infinite spells, it's perfectly possible. The only real limitation is that you can't cast certain types of spells at-will in combat time. Wall of Iron specifically. The Pearls of Power only are a deal if you cast 1 spell of a single type per combat. If you need to prepare 2 Colour Sprays, so that you have a safe amount of Colour Sprays per battle, you're better off just grabbing a wand of Colour Spray.

I'm just giving my own opinion on how I'd approach very low level play using BoG rules based on my own experience using BoG rules for items in my own tabletop game.

Prak,

For stats, I kept trying to roll for at least a single 9, but no such luck.

The closest I got was a single 10 (4th roll (13, 10, 13, 16, 17, 14).
I got fed up when I got this (18, 17, 18, 18, 16, 16), and went for one last try (17, 16, 18, 13, 15, 18).

Honestly, I'm fed up trying to roll low and I've got better stuff to do today than roll away like an old person "Grinding" a slot machine.

Watching old people at slot machines is like watching a video game player, frankly, the MMO player is doing themselves and their bank less harm in the long run imo.

Prak, here's my roll attempts for Farmer Al. I dunno, pick one, and I'll assign the stats somehow. There's only like 9 rolls to pick from, I somehow got ERROR as my results for my first roll, so I guess they don't count.


My suggestion on magic items is that you just can't strap on as many magic items as you have right away. So, if you're a wizard, and you're level 3, and have like say 5 minor items, you can only equip 4 of those 5 (this keeps the game near where wealth-by-level guidelines tend to be). So, you can "own" a pile of magic items, you just can't use them all concurrently at the same time. At least not until you're a reasonably powerful adventurer.

Maybe wearing magic items attracts monsters. More items attracts more monsters. If you wear 8, you attract CR 8 monsters.

Maybe higher level adventurers will just take away your excess items because they can. That means Paladins as much as it means Assasins. Knights and Paladins don't want lower level people running around with items that they can't use well or keep safe from an opposing side.

This ties in with Frank's statement that a peasant with a wand of Charm Person will have their wand forcibly taken by a high level Paladin as much as it will be stolen by a high level Assasin. At level 1 and 2 our characters are chumps to even a 5th level character. Some slightly higher level characters can possbily tool us down if they make good use of tactics.

I've seen a Dunge Monk tool down a Soulknife and a RoW Fighter by making good use of the massive jump combined with a "bonus to movements speed" & "deal movement speed damage" fighting style. He'd wait for them to get near, deal movement damage, then jump over them.
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Prak, the Mad

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2008, 06:12:43 PM »
Okay, JE, I'm going to give you a choice

roll 3d6,
or
take elite array.

it's up to you, I want to work with you on this, especially since you're trying for LOW rolls.

Kaelik

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2008, 06:37:49 PM »
Kaelik,

The nightsticks would still burn up a slot, and more importantly keep that slot burned up. Since you're still "using" the abilities of the item if the item is fueling an ongoing effect. The only time an expended Nightstick won't take up a slot is if you're not getting a benefit from it naow (i.e. you used it to Turn Undead). We've discussed this before, and I already answered that concern. Infinite Night Sticks can't give infinite persistant spells.

The PoP are sort of like spell scrolls. Infinite amounts of scrolls isn't a big deal, I've had games where the full caster cast spells every round and it was fine.

Pearls of Power would only allow infinite uses of the same spells, and well, actually, it doesn't matter. You can just get a wand that takes up an item slot and cast a spell out of it every round. Seriously, if you want infinite spells, it's perfectly possible. The only real limitation is that you can't cast certain types of spells at-will in combat time. Wall of Iron specifically. The Pearls of Power only are a deal if you cast 1 spell of a single type per combat. If you need to prepare 2 Colour Sprays, so that you have a safe amount of Colour Sprays per battle, you're better off just grabbing a wand of Colour Spray.

I'm just giving my own opinion on how I'd approach very low level play using BoG rules based on my own experience using BoG rules for items in my own tabletop game.

I know you've never understood a single word that I've ever said, but this is getting ridiculous.

"For "other" magic items, I'd say that almost any currently created magic item under 15k is viable once the Wish economy is available. The only things that the BoG limits is "when" a spellcaster can craft an item."

To which I responded, fuck now we need a limit on number of items used at any given time, to which you replied, "It's okay, items that don't count towards the limit still count towards the limit."

Of course, nothing you have said explains whether you think characters should have a maximum number of items in use at any given time or not.

woodenbandman

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2008, 09:23:51 PM »
Wow, the Jester spell list sucks kinda bad. It's got some gems, and some real stinkers.

And I did do the 3 sets thing, that array there was my 3rd set. Kinda sucks that I didn't get 4 18s but I'll make do.

questions: Murderous intent gives you a +2 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls if you slay an enemy for one minute. Is this meant to increase on an enemies killed basis? What constitutes an "enemy?" Is a rat an enemy?

Prak, the Mad

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2008, 09:51:07 PM »
um... based on the thread on TGD about 4e's farcical definitions, an enemy is something actually opposing you. You are not your own enemy, a rat in a sack is not your enemy. A rat you have been tasked to kill does count as an enemy. Likewise a commoner who says "no you cannot have your way with my wife and daughter, slaughter my livestock, raid my meager supplies and then train my son to hate and kill me on sight in the future" is, regardless of inability to stop you, your enemy.

and I would imagine that, yes, this is meant to increase on a per enemy basis.

woodenbandman

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2008, 10:55:00 PM »
Cool, that sounds about right. Didn't want to get the persistant greater consumptive field shenanigans running.

So just for the record, do we get 9 sets of rolls, or 3? Because I managed to roll spectacularly poorly twice already, and if I can have 6 more I wouldn't mind. Couldn't hurt my chances, right? Final thing, can I have an armor that gives me the boost of, say, a chain shirt, but has the skill special abilities of Fancy Clothes?

Prak, the Mad

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2008, 11:25:26 PM »
Cool, that sounds about right. Didn't want to get the persistant greater consumptive field shenanigans running.

So just for the record, do we get 9 sets of rolls, or 3? Because I managed to roll spectacularly poorly twice already, and if I can have 6 more I wouldn't mind. Couldn't hurt my chances, right? Final thing, can I have an armor that gives me the boost of, say, a chain shirt, but has the skill special abilities of Fancy Clothes?
JE took nine sets specifically because he was trying to roll low, he also didn't tell me that he was rolling nine sets... And no, no more 6 sets, I'll go one. I don't want people rolling for the next four days, but I will allow four sets total. As to the armour... yeah sure.

Cynic

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2008, 12:06:57 AM »
Wow, the Jester spell list sucks kinda bad. It's got some gems, and some real stinkers.


Seriously? I find the jester to be one of the more powerful characters on the tome list.

Edit: mind if I edit my character to play an Aasimar Marshall?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 12:34:56 AM by Cynic »

Prak, the Mad

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2008, 12:39:31 AM »
no problem cynic.

Cynic

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2008, 02:27:13 AM »
I'm seriously having a hard time finding some of these feats on the Den. I know I've seen Mental weaponry and intelligent fighter. I found Koumei's elven testicles. but stuff like the cosmologist and the others are just not registering.

Prak, the Mad

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2008, 03:36:22 AM »
found cosmologist (seventh post from the bottom), Intelligent Fighter (sixth post from the top) and Mental Weaponry (eighth from the top).
« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 03:38:57 AM by Prak, the Mad »

Calibron

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2008, 05:56:43 AM »
Okay, switched it over to public, and upped the character to second level.  I may or may not be able to participate until GMT midnight or 1 AM DEC 25th, rather than GMT 10 PM DEC 24th.

Prak, the Mad

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2008, 05:58:55 AM »
cool, I'll take a look.
and that's not a problem, it'll go whenever.

hell, I don't even have a board up yet.

Judging Eagle

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Re: [Tome 3.5 D&D]Recruiting for a (Frank and K) Tome D&D game.
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2008, 07:03:29 AM »
Mental Weaponry

Rargh....now I want to play that Rogueish fighter again. Oh mental weaponry, you fiendishly wily siren.

It's funny how you can be seduced into thinking that your own inventions are excellent.

I'm just gonna roll up Ronge.

Sorry about the lots of rolling earlier. I figured that if I was aiming for something that is the opposite of what is normally wanted that the excess rolling would be fine. For instance, dealing 1 damage with every weapon attack that you do, just because you want to.

Intelligent Fighter
[spoiler]Intelligent Fighter [Combat]
You outsmart people...so you can stab them in the face.
Benefit: You have the Edge over opponents when your Intelligence is greater than both their Intelligence and their Dexterity.

+1: You may use your Int bonus on both melee and ranged attack rolls. Yes, you're very smart.

+6: Ghost Step: You may use your Int bonus in place of Charisma when you feint. Additionally, you may do a special feint, called a Ghost Step, when you take a move action to move around your opponent while staying in melee range. This feint may be based on BAB or your ranks in Bluff, plus your Int bonus. If it's successful, your opponent loses his Dex bonus (like normal) and you deal an additional Xd6 (X is equal to your Int Bonus) damage when you stab him in the ass, as long as the ass is stabbed before the enemy's next turn. This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit, and Ghost Step may only be used once per round.

+11: You may use your Int bonus on both melee and ranged damage rolls.

+16: Manipulate: With your enormous brain, you're perfectly suited to tricking an enemy into doing what you want them to. You may do a special Feint as a swift action once a round. [/spoiler]

Painmonger
[spoiler]Painmonger [Skill]

Being hurt doesn't really affect you.

Benefit: You gain Concentration as a class skill and can make Concentration checks using one of your mental ability scores [the mental ability score is selected when this feat is selected and cannot be changed without DM approval]

4: Scar Tissue: Scarred tissue is much tougher than normal tissue. Broken bones heal more solidly and stronger than unbroken bones. You gain DR X/-, where X is equal to 1/2 your ranks in Concentration. You may choose to have this ability active or not on any attack that you sustain, but must decide before the damage is determined.

Pain is nothing: Being cut, mangled, bruised, charred or frozen doesn't just harm you, it focuses your mind and actions with terrible resolve
If you do not use your Scar Tissue ability and take damage from a Physical attack or take damage from any non-Physical source, you gain +1 to all of your Attack, Caster level, Damage, Skill check and Saving Throw dice rolls for the next minute. This ability can be used more than once and the bonus increases each time you use it, your maximum bonus is equal to one half your ranks in Concentration.

9: Touch of pain: You've experienced enough pain to know how to harm others without weapons. With just a touch you can jab at nerves, punch organs close to the skin and threaten weak points such as eyes, ears or noses.
You can make touch attacks that injure. As an attack action, you may make a touch attack that deals damage equal to a concentration check. This damage may be lethal or subdual damage and bypasses no Damage Reduction unless your natural attacks can already do so. This ability only affects creatures that can feel pain.

Painful Strikes: You know how strike your enemies to really hurt them with your weapon attacks.
All of your attacks against creatures that can feel pain may deal an additional amount of damage up to your ranks in Concentration. This bonus damage cannot be multiplied or increased in any manner.

14: Internal Scars: The mental damage and traumatic events that you have been victim to, been a part of or witnessed no longer harm you the same as they would affect others.
You can make Concentration checks in place of Saving Throws against effects that would instantly kill you.

The DC of the skill check is equal to the the Saving Throw DC required to survive. If you fail the check, you instead take one point of damage per caster level of the effect that you were trying to save against (or Hit Dice of the creature that was using the ability against you) and 1d4 points of damage to one ability score (chosen by you each time this occurs).

You are immune to fear effects and enchantments.

19: Masochism: You know that pain focuses you. Now you deal it to yourself in order to be at your peak whenever you choose.
You can attack yourself up to your number of attacks per round. Attacking yourself in this manner is a non-action that provokes attacks of opportunity per attack that you perform on yourself. Your bonus to dice rolls granted by your Pain is nothing ability is equal to the damage that you take on any attack, with the same limitations to the size of the bonus. 

Note: You may always choose to deal minimal damage (1 damage) on any attack that you do. This rule does not usually get mentioned because usually you want to deal the most damage possible.[/spoiler]


Anyway, stats, rolled 4 times, results of the second roll are: 18, 18, 17, 16, 16, 15

I'm thinking 
15 S
17 D
18 C
18 I
16 W
16 Ch

A fairly well rounded, above average person whose very smart and tough.

Also, Kalelik, with those dice rolls.... I dunno, it seems like you're wasting them playing a spellcaster. Just my opinion though, more, higher stats are good for classes that don't have lots of powerful built-in abilities, while fewer and lower stats don't hold back something like a Druid or a Wizard. Certain Clerics "might" be held back, but it's not crippling.


On magic item limits,

The way that I see magic items is like this. First, you've got all the stuff that you own. This includes Portable Holes that you built a round custom set of shelves with storage boxes, and store all of your basic, but crucial gear; like food, water, arrows, hundreds of feet of silk rope. This also includes your Magic steel Longsword and your Magic Darkwood bow. As well as a Decanter of Endless Water, and a stat (Say, Dex) and a skill boosting item (say, Spot).

But you don't use them all at the same time. In fact, if you can use your Bow, Sword and Portable hole at the same time, you're probably not a humanoid magic and weapon using adventurer.

The "cap" that I'm proposing is how many items a PC can use before you hit the 8 in-use magic item cap. This is mostly to prevent a 2nd lvl character from having a magical +1 to two of their stats, a magical +2 to three skills, a Magic sheild, Magic Armour and a Magic Weapon. At that level... it just seems a bit excessive.

The CR system does require PCs to have magic gear, but they don't really need 8 magic items running all the time until level 7 or so. Up until that point, and long afterwards as well, the adventurers have to make decisions about whether to equip their "scout" with a weapon, or a +Spot set of goggles. The weapon lets them fight, but they might need the goggles to perform the task at hand. Later on it's to decide between having some At-Will spell-casting wands/rods/staffs versus a bonus to a skill or a bonus to a stat.

You can always grab the other item, but that means that it's not working now, since you have other items that are taking up active slots.

As for what is "allowed" by the Wish economy. Some items have to go. Notabley Candles of Invocation. The caster level alone puts it out of the reach of most PCs.

Regarding always-on Buffs, they have to cost something, if they don't cost something, you shouldn't get them. One type of "cost" is to burn up your character's Turn attempts; if you augment your number of turn attempts with a nightstick, then you had to use an item slot to attune that night stick to you. If you give up attunement of that nightstick, you lose any ongoing benefits that it is in anyway providing. I find that to be a simple enough solution.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2008, 03:38:01 AM by Judging Eagle »
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