Author Topic: Gameology-Fu  (Read 69394 times)

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Elennsar

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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #320 on: November 01, 2008, 03:11:46 AM »
I'm not precisely concerned about having a "low" or even negative fu score. I am very much irked that it is an inaccurate score.

Easy to say "It doesn't matter." when you have a score you're happy with and a point or two either way won't effect how generally good/bad your score is.
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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #321 on: November 01, 2008, 03:46:40 AM »
In this most recent context though your issue is with another person's fu, or the inaccuracy of their fu, as the case maybe and not your own. It is to that which my post pertained.
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Elennsar

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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #322 on: November 01, 2008, 03:50:30 AM »
Same principle. Inaccuracy is bothersome and unjustified.

AC has a fu of 66. Does he deserve it? Maybe. When people give out fu without good reason, there's no way to tell if his fu is an accurate reflection of anything.

And if it is entirely meaningless, then why do we have it to begin with? To occupy space?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 03:53:12 AM by Elennsar »
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Midnight_v

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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #323 on: November 01, 2008, 04:01:58 AM »
I believe the fu is deserved, and useful.
My fu is a 6. It was once -2, I didn't even need really to do much to figure out why it got dropped.
The more I "Help" and stay on topic and share my insight and knowledge into a problem, the more my fu has grown.
I'm not someone who looks at the next man and says "you're worth something because you were born human" but I do
know that you might well be worth something and hell I am only worth so much.
So yeah fu means something, I think a part of your gameology will be reflective of how well you're able to get along.

On this sight and in fact as far back as 339 I learned alot about these people some of them are my erstwhile friends on my time online.
You... you have always been my enemy I think, just vastly opposing veiw points about games in general I think. Though I recall a few times we've agreed.
So you can take this as friendly nod or a slight, but I hope you don't see it as the latter.
Elennsar, I, Midnight_v Rant. There are moments when I have slipped into huge murderous tirades, and generally .. generally make an ass of myself doing so. I do that and my fu drops. Drops because someone sees it and thinks "What an ass, no one should be listening to this guy" and drop my fu.
I rant.
You whine.
Whine about fu, whine about people calling you names, whine about this thread or that...

  You might not like it, you might not agree that I'm the one saying it but to me,(and you may well be like Fuck your opinion M_v and thats fine too), and probbably to a few others you come off as a whiner. . . and I dont' think you like it when people say "FUCK" but that's just some observation.
So ... fellow human to fellow human sometimes we have to do some self analysis. I rant get -fu, you whine get -fu, but I acknowledge what I'm doing wrong and try to change it {or like kuroimaken start taking payment in neg fu. Though really I wish he'd stop doing that...}

Also ... your fu is what -19 -20?
One thing I keep thinking is.
Option 1: You're right and the people here are just pompus assholes with no human dignity or communication skills or whatever.
or
Option 2: Elennsar is doing something wrong.

If 2 then self analysis and fixing.
If 1 then why keep coming here daily and being called a "bitch" everyday?
There are more friendly, more "forcibly" polite forums... with no -fu, to imply you're not as worth listening to a priori to the next guy.
Madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Either way the only constant, is you, Elennsar. Good luck. No, really, good luck.
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Elennsar

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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #324 on: November 01, 2008, 04:17:43 AM »
Once again, you distort what I say, ignore what it means, and demonstrate why popularity should be kept as far from the fu system as possible.

I am not "whining" because I am complaining about something. Unless of course all complaining at all times is whining, in which case everyone here is guilty of whining and the term is meaningless.

There are two options to deal with the misuse of fu...either the awarding of positive fu for bad reasons or the awarding of negative fu for equally bad reasons.

Option 1: There are people here who are abusing the system who should be stopped. Does this mean banned? Hopefully not. But "bizzare black and white world view" or "said what I was going to say before I insulted someone." are not related to gamelogy at all.

Option 2: There are people here who are abusing the system who should be treated as perfectly okay even as they abuse the system and drive off people because they don't like having to listen to them, regardless of whether or not those people have anything legitimate to say or not.

In other words, those who make the system a mockery are told that their behavior is acceptable, and those that protest are told that theirs, despite the fact the fu system is said to be based on something other than personal preference, is not. So you speed the site's route towards "Let's have a site full of group thinking douchebags." by pursuing 2.


My fu is not a reflection of my gameology or lack thereof as the case might be, it is a reflection of a lot of "we don't like Elennsar so we're going to bash him". And I say this after seeing (via Meg) a list of quite a bit of the negative fu I have recieved and the reasons, most of which are at best greatly exagerated and at worst untrue.

So...if fu awarding stays as is, then you are encouraging people to be douchebags and to drive off those they dislike, and to give fu to people they do like regardless of their merits. It's that simple, unfortunately.
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Midnight_v

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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #325 on: November 01, 2008, 05:07:56 AM »
You didn't listen to a word I said did you?

All I'm saying is consider what Elennsar may be doing to enhance the problem.
I wasn't talking about you specifically in this one thread, El. I mean you in general.

For example. I can say something unsound gameology wise so can P.I. or tsyoshikentsu, or Dictum
though they typically don't.
...and not get neg-fu.
Why, cause overall they logic they use is typically sound, they're generaly speaking nice guys too, well not P.I.
... actually P.I. is a better case actually.

P.I.'s gameology fu is what like 30? Though everytime, well every othertime, I bump into him he's slamming someone.
I would think this would lead to neg fu, but it doesn't.
Why, cause P.I. Is really helpful with a lot of shit, or really knowledgable at least, when he complains people listen, no one
has ever said to this guy "you are whining, sir".

I personally think its just your delivery or maybe it that you often attack not the argument, but why are we having this argument at all.

Midnight_v pisses people off all the time. Just the other day I pissed of X-codes, and I walked away really cause it wasn't even that important to me that we were talking past each other, I think it was a democracy thread.
I maybe could have won the argument, but one of maybe would have looked like an ass, and frankly there was just better shit to debate.
Though neither of us dropped the -fu bomb.
Why? You say it's popularity.
Frankly, fu isn't a measure of popularity,but I sure as hell imagine that your popularity might affect how fast someone will dropp  you fu.
I say some lame ass/bullshit, people tell me, publically, "That was some lame ass bullshit M_v"
maybe I'll argue the point. Maybe I go damn "that was prety lame"
Later i'll get a pm from sunic or uber or robby, like, "What the fuck was that lame ass bullshit"
I'll laugh and say "I don't know what the fuck I was thinking"
Or maybe I'll get my fu dropped but I acknowledge...

You do it. . . and eventually you get you fu dropped, because never do you back down, you'll whine and bitch and complain, until finally people are like "okay this guys just being an all around ass" and drop your fu.

Not because you're unpopular but when you're unpopular people are more apt to say "This asshole again".

A peer review system is a goodthing  and refreshing I think, and I don't even want to drive you off, I'd like to see you become a better member here.

Man to man though, you need to look at yourself, bro. It simply doesn't make sense "everyone here is picking on me" is something we should have grown out of. We're not, I dont' log on to pick on you everyday though there was a day when I was sorely tempted.
If every couple days you have to say "You're distorting what I said, you're not listening" well, you are doing something wrong.

I'm not talking about this thread in particular, I'm talking about taking personal responsibility here.

Some of your Ideas:
Will sell like hotcakes
Will be accepted or begrudginly accepted
Will be brutally and vehemnatly rejected and pissed on.

and you just gotta be able to take all 3 of those with dignity, and you really don't, EL, and that's just a life lesson you're just not applying here on BG's so it's like you know "douchebaggery".
This whole things not an attack, but peer review, if there was a bunch of people telling me "you're an asshole Midnight_v" I'd try my best to get to the bottom of it and see if there's anything to be done about what I'm doing wrong. Like why the fuck do you say that?
Though from what I see of you, your response would be "That bullshit!, You people should have more respect/decency you're picking on me cause you don't like me, reported!"
...but why, why don't they like you Elennsar? Is it at least possible that you're doing something wrong?
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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #326 on: November 01, 2008, 05:10:03 AM »
I have negative Fu because I'm House.  House is fine and all to watch, but people don't like actually seeing him rip someone apart when they are a dumbass.


And frankly?  I'm ok with having negative fu.  Being House is more of a contribution to this forum than having a big fu score.  Sometimes people don't want to hear what they need to hear.

That's OK.  People are weak and stupid.  That's not my problem.  As long as I help them as best I can (IE being House) then I'm happy with what the state of affairs is.
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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #327 on: November 01, 2008, 05:16:33 AM »
I have negative Fu because I'm House.  House is fine and all to watch, but people don't like actually seeing him rip someone apart when they are a dumbass.


And frankly?  I'm ok with having negative fu.  Being House is more of a contribution to this forum than having a big fu score.  Sometimes people don't want to hear what they need to hear.

That's OK.  People are weak and stupid.  That's not my problem.  As long as I help them as best I can (IE being House) then I'm happy with what the state of affairs is.
Bitch, you have negative fu cause you went on a fucking 7 day rampage with JaronK where neither of you were listening to anybody else no matter who was right.
If Superman and Captain Marvel get in a fight that destroys most of civilization, regardless of how that fight started or who was right you fucks just destroyed civilization with your rampage.
Right, wrong, or indifferent you have to fucking learn to accept a friendly draw.
You just don't give a fuck because when your tirade is over, you know your fu will slowly creep back up (for good, advice, deeds and whatnot)
So it is in a way the same, but not exaclty the same.
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Ubernoob

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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #328 on: November 01, 2008, 05:19:26 AM »
I have negative Fu because I'm House.  House is fine and all to watch, but people don't like actually seeing him rip someone apart when they are a dumbass.


And frankly?  I'm ok with having negative fu.  Being House is more of a contribution to this forum than having a big fu score.  Sometimes people don't want to hear what they need to hear.

That's OK.  People are weak and stupid.  That's not my problem.  As long as I help them as best I can (IE being House) then I'm happy with what the state of affairs is.
Bitch, you have negative fu cause you went on a fucking 7 day rampage with JaronK where neither of you were listening to anybody else no matter who was right.
If Superman and Captain Marvel get in a fight that destroys most of civilization, regardless of how that fight started or who was right you fucks just destroyed civilization with your rampage.
Right, wrong, or indifferent you have to fucking learn to accept a friendly draw.
You just don't give a fuck because when your tirade is over, you know your fu will slowly creep back up (for good, advice, deeds and whatnot)
So it is in a way the same, but not exaclty the same.
How is this incompatible with what I said?  House don't take misiniformation from nobody.  Superman don't take shit from nobody.  Anyone in the way be damned, but house and superman are going to fucking win 100% off the time because they are fucking house and fucking superman.
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Elennsar

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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #329 on: November 01, 2008, 05:23:16 AM »
I'll consider it the instant that the reason for the problem can't be traced to other people saying "we have a problem, we have no desire to work it out, and we're going to be jerks".

I can take a rejection of my ideas with dignity. What I can't take is being told that I'm an idiot, that I suck, that we should all bow before the superior standards of subjective morality, and so on and so on. If you disagree with my ideas on how the game should be run, but actually act respectfully, I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is having my ideas being treated as "let's mock this person". If you'd like me to be a "better member", then stop pretending that tolerating people being jerks is a good way to encourage anything but more jerks and less new people staying.

I have my fair share of perfectly legitimately annoying issues. People who act in reasonable (which does not mean anything like "quick agreement"...several of the people I most enjoy talking with are people who I don't instantly agree with exactly what they say.) ways don't run into them. People who think that they know what I think better than I do tend to do so. People who think that expecting me to tolerate them being insulting run into them.
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Talen Lee

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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #330 on: November 01, 2008, 05:49:55 AM »
The kind of people who idolise House's interpersonal behaviour are exactly the kind of people I want to have a forewarning about.

You're not fucking House. House is saving people's lives and being entertaining while he does it. You're a dick on an internet forum. The least you could do is be entertaining about it.

Midnight_v

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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #331 on: November 01, 2008, 05:56:23 AM »
See what you're doing is not accepting your part of the blame.
Really you have to at some point say "I am part of the problem" if you can't breach that barrier you're gonna be unhappy bout
a lot of things. In this case posting.
Quote
What I can't take is being told that I'm an idiot, that I suck,

Well I'm sorry for you Elennsar, thats stuffs pretty standard fare on the internet really.
In all ernest if you can't handle some guy in Peru saying "you're a fucktard", and seriously
not be able to deal then you have a problem, and its that people talk shit over the internet, that they'd
not dare talk in real life. You can't change that. So you then decide to attack things like gamer fu, not
what you said, my opinoin of what you do. AGAIN my opinion. Not the first time. You wan't people to police
others for talking shit. Well thats not how it works, you police yourself and the others either condone or don't
condone your actions. Here I'm perfectly fine with uber saying
Quote
How is this incompatible with what I said?
speaking of which. . .
How this is different uber, is in my paradigm the superman and Marvel are actually ... I dont' know .... UNHAPPY about destroying
half civilization. While you're kinda like "It's okay, I'll help rebuild". The fuck  ??? :wall

 :lol
You are having an Urza moment. You know Urza, the planeswalker?


Urza: I thought you said you wanted to destroy the Phyrexians.
Barrin: No! I said I wanted to  save Dominaria
Urza: There is no difference...
Barrin: there is when we kill the world to do it.

You get the pyrrhic victory award, though.

...................
I find uber entertaining so... you know different strokes for different folks.
Further, not that I disagree with you, but
1. Uber may well be some guy saving lives, cause he's a dick on an internet forum doesn't mean he's not.
2. You have basicaly agreed with Uber, by saing its okay to be a dick if your correct and entertaining.
Which, it probbably is, but that's his point.
It's okay to be a dick "Bitch, I'm right".
Which I find entertaining as all get out to watch.
Frank & K do that shit better though, mostly cause they're more right and more entertaining, but I have hopes for the noob..
High hopes indeed!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 06:02:55 AM by Midnight_v »
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Elennsar

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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #332 on: November 01, 2008, 06:03:01 AM »
You might be fine with a site where being an obnoxious jackass to anyone you dislike, as long as you're respectful to a few people who have influence/standing, is perfectly acceptable. I am not.

I will not accept blame for something that is not my fault, and people thinking that "he has a bizzare black and white world view. Negative fu him!" are definately one of those things.

I'll accept my share of the blame for what I've done, but not for what jerks do and others rationalize.

"you're an idiot, you suck, etc." are only standard fare on sites that refuse to monitor it. Sites that do don't deal with it very often.
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Talen Lee

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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #333 on: November 01, 2008, 06:10:45 AM »
It's amazing to see all those people without negative fu crusade for how unfair a system it is.

Elennsar

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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #334 on: November 01, 2008, 06:19:20 AM »
As stated, when you're content with how it works, whether or not it is unfair to anyone else becomes rather less pressing.

And there are few people who would complain about getting positive fu.

I don't mind the system itself (The +1 for a new thread, +X for something particularly special, etc.)...I mind the abuse of the system.

One's fu should be a pretty reliable indication of whether or not one is generally doing well or not, not a pretty reliable indication of how many people dislike you or disagree your arguements.
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Midnight_v

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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #335 on: November 01, 2008, 06:30:21 AM »
Well, you know that sets up a strange dichotomy,
1. OKay when you say:

Quote
I'll accept my share of the blame for what I've done, but not for what jerks do and others rationalize
What have you or rather what do you feel that you've done wrong? Or is that just a "fine, fine, shut the fuck up M_v"?

2. Realize that what you're saying is you want a more Mod controlled enviornment. Most of us are here because we do not like a mod system of oppression. I dont' post at paizo for that reason, more honest answers and freedom to call bullshit where I see it.

Futher the whole obnoxios Jack asses/respectfull to a few, really seems like needless hyperbole.
All in all thats not what happens, nor did I say that so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

Also the thing thing is you're ignoring the cultrual relativity of the situation. Your fu is -19 because people are tryin to tell you to some degree that you're being an obnoxious jack ass.
If my fu can go from -2 to 12 because I started saying "damn" why is my fu so low" I must be doing something wrong. Its possible to do.
I dont' kiss ass, I dont' "Kick" ass. I just give earnest opionions and insightful tidbits where I can without getting drawn into prolonged wars with people... or attacking the system itself.
Which isn't likely to change.
To a degree there's a hypocrisy you espouse, a few post ago you said.
Quote
So...if fu awarding stays as is, then you are encouraging people to be douchebags and to drive off those they dislike, and to give fu to people they do like regardless of their merits

But basically you're suggesting a system of driving people off based on being douchbags based on your definiton of douchbags.
You want the boards more heaviliy censored or modded.
So to you saying "You suck" or "you're an idiot" is unacceptable and ultimately want to drive off the people who do so through use of modding, the people you dont' like.
Causing a bigger and bigger stink until you get your way.
Frankly I'm here because people don't have to bit thier tongue.

Quote
"you're an idiot, you suck, etc." are only standard fare on sites that refuse to monitor it. Sites that do don't deal with it very often.

and this goes back to our basic argument. You are the constant.
If you dont' like it find a site that does, dont' try to tell the BG's how to run thier site correctly?
I mean what make your opinion of right and wrong so righteous?

This is why gameology fu is some grand.
In the short term you and I , do not fucking like each other. I mean thats just how it played out.

Our peers however have dropped your fu to some stupid fucking neg number and mine went from neg to pos in a month. Though you blame the system itself, when uber is an obnoxious jackass his fu plummetted! Its not the system it's you.
Or me
or whoever.
To say otherwise is just blame shifting.

If you get the whole thing to shift to Gitp style heavy Modding. Then many of us will just leave, yay, go you but we'll just end somewhere else less modded TGD or somewhere. Where there'll still be things like "Threads that make us laugh/cry/vomit...etc..."
So what do you really win by all this campaigning?
Especially when ulitmately you're campaigning on behalf of censorship.
Censorship... I mean do you listen to the Pod cast? I dont' think that shits gonna fly.
I'll stop though... I kinda think if you were gonna listen you'd have listened by now.

Sigh... :beathorse


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Elennsar

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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #336 on: November 01, 2008, 06:42:38 AM »
1) You want a stab-at-what-I-think-at-the-moment or a specific example of things I'd take back or redo if I had the option?

The latter might take a while to write up clearly.

2) No, my fu is -19 because -they- are obnoxious jackasses. There are plenty of perfectly good ways to say "Um, Elennsar, you might want to work on _____." that don't involve being rude or lowering fu.

3) No, I'm suggesting that douchebags be made to change their ways. If that involves banning because they refuse to do so, so be it. Ideally, it won't even involve the threat.

As for tongue biting: If you're not willing to accept that not everything that you want to say or do is something you should say or do, you don't belong on an adult site. I've a few nasty thoughts on what I'd like to do to people that I know would be neither just or productive. I'd like to have more people say the same.

4) It is the tolerance of people abusing the system that is the problem. Not how fu is mechanically assigned or the fact users get to use it freely...the fact that misusing it is not considered a bad thing despite the bad effects.

I'm not interested in censorship. I'm interested in dealing with adults, not people who feel that they have a right to say anything they want, no matter what the situation or the consequences are. If you can't accept that some things are best not done/said, as said, you're not an adult. You're asking to be given all the freedoms and none of the responsibility.

I can listen and completely disagree with someone. I can listen and partially disagree with someone. I can listen and be unsure whether I agree or disagree with someone.

So don't confuse "disagree with" with "don't listen to".
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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #337 on: November 01, 2008, 10:17:17 AM »
I have one statement (quoted from the film Angus) which I think succinctly addresses the subject of Fu and karma systems in general:

"Screw 'em, Who gives a fuck what people think"

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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #338 on: November 01, 2008, 10:20:27 AM »
Quote
2) No, my fu is -19 because -they- are obnoxious jackasses. There are plenty of perfectly good ways to say "Um, Elennsar, you might want to work on _____." that don't involve being rude or lowering fu.

Um, Elennsar, they have been trying to say that for a long while(before your fu started it's imitation of a meteor), you just haven't been listening. At all.
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Re: Gameology-Fu
« Reply #339 on: November 01, 2008, 11:33:41 AM »
Heh, Gregory House got brought into it.

The parallel actually is valid. Both House and Uber are trying to help people, even if it means being a blunt ass to do it. House is doing so in the medical profession, so he's saving lives. Uber is doing it in a different context, but the principle is the same. Ultimately what makes House MD syndrome preferable is that while they may be an ass, they are a damn good ass and competence trumps empty fluff. Both qualify as such within their respective contexts.

I also qualify, but I am more cunning in the application so my targets know they have royally fucked up and need to fix themselves now. The only difference though is it means I don't get a meaningless number lowered by butthurt victims, so it doesn't really matter.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]