Author Topic: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness  (Read 8867 times)

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Ithamar

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Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« on: December 19, 2008, 07:58:19 PM »
I'm contemplating applying for a level 20 PbP game where the DM has explicitly allowed everything from UA except for Gestalt.  So I was thinking of going with a Generic Spellcaster and going for the DMM Persistent Cleric route.  Since Generic Casters can pull any spell they want onto their list, the options are stupidly amazing.

Then a thought occurred to me:  I've always wanted to build a caster that utilized the various meta-breath spells to great effect.  I've never really had the chance, but now...  :smirk

My plan is to use the Dragonborn template to gain a breath weapon, Persistent Shapechange into something with an obscene CON score and go to town.  And thanks to being Generic, he would have other great buffs persisted like Bite of the Werebear (+8 CON, woo hoo!), Swift Haste, etc.

So a couple questions:

1) Spells like Blinding Breath, Stunning Breath, Enervating Breath, etc. all seem like they should be Persistable.  But would the effects endure, or are they one shot and you're done?  So if I Persist Blinding, Stunning & Enervating, can I breathe every 1d4 rounds and subject some poor sucker to all 3 effects, plus the standard breath damage?

2) What would the best Shapechange form be?  The higher the CON the better obviously...

3) For the purposes of acheiving the end results of an immeasurably destructive breath weapon, what are some more solid choices to Persist?

And this is my first post, so if I'm way off basis, be gentle.  ;)
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Arcane-surge

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2008, 08:45:30 PM »
1) It depends. Enervating Breath has a range of Personal and a duration of 1 round, making it legal to Persist. Stunning Breath has a duration of Instantaneous though, which means you can't. Blinding Breath refers to Breath Flare, which also has a duration of 1 round and a range of Personal, so it's in. If they're persisted, then it'd seem that they apply to every application of the breath weapon in question.

Also, don't forget to take Entangling Exhalation (Races of the Dragon).
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Ithamar

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2008, 09:34:22 PM »
Ah, glad to hear that my plan is mostly feasible.  Thanks!

As to forms to assume via Shapechange, I've come up with the following, all with CON 32 (the highest I can find):

Eldritch Giant (MM III)
Greater Dusk Giant (HoH)
Sorrowsworn Demon (MM III)

Anything out there with higher than 32?
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Kaelik

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2008, 09:48:24 PM »
Since you are apparently using Shapechange, you'll probably want to know the following things:

1) Breath Weapons go away when you shapechange to another form. So Dragonborn is not really doing anything for you other then giving you access to some metabreath feats that probably aren't worth it, and entangling exhalation, which is.

2) You can shapechange into a Dragon per round and fire off a breath weapon every round. That's probably more useful then trying to get a marginally higher Con. Obviously anything that has a breath weapon and higher Con is better.

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2008, 09:52:25 PM »
Ah crap, I completely overlooked that part about losing your own breath weapon...  Well that certainly narrows my focus when looking for new shapes.  Thanks!
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Arcane-surge

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2008, 09:56:10 PM »
Alternately, you could Persist the Dragon Breath spell from Spell Compendium, and just use that as your breath weapon.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2008, 10:51:52 PM »
You should be able to persist polymorph, since you keep your supernatural abilities (and breath weapons are generally supernatural, unless dragonborn are different).

Polymorph is still stupidly strong, even into epic levels.
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Kaelik

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2008, 11:00:48 PM »
You should be able to persist polymorph, since you keep your supernatural abilities (and breath weapons are generally supernatural, unless dragonborn are different).

Polymorph is still stupidly strong, even into epic levels.

Actually, you even lose your breath weapon with polymorph. As part of it's inheritances, you lose all breath weapons, even supernatural ones. It's counter to all other supernatural abilities, just breath weapons are lost in Polymorph.

So basically, use shapechange for Con, and use that spell for your breath weapon. Have at it.

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2008, 11:08:37 PM »
Nope. You keep it unless you transform into something that doesn't have a mouth. It's in the description for alter self.

[spoiler]You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack).[/spoiler]

Note that it says you keep it unless you don't have the body part required for your breath weapon (namely, a mouth). If, for example, you turn into a gelatinous cube, you wouldn't be able to retain your breath weapon.

Most other things are fine, though.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
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My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
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Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
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Ithamar

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2008, 12:17:41 AM »
Unfortunately I don't think Polymorph is persistable.  But a Mountain Troll has a nice big CON and is only 15 HD.  Hmmm....
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2008, 12:34:29 AM »
Unfortunately I don't think Polymorph is persistable.  But a Mountain Troll has a nice big CON and is only 15 HD.  Hmmm....
I don't see why not. It has a range of "touch," which is a fixed range. It's not an instantaneous effect.

Why wouldn't it work?
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
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Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
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shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
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Ithamar

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2008, 12:53:45 AM »
I've certainly been wrong before, but I don't think Touch counts as fixed range actually.
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woodenbandman

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2008, 01:07:05 AM »
I think the argument goes something like "not all creatures have the same reach" or some bullshit like that, but I totally think that they just put that in so that you can't persist stupid stuff like... actually, I have no idea why they did that.

Kaelik

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2008, 01:07:37 AM »
Nope. You keep it unless you transform into something that doesn't have a mouth. It's in the description for alter self.

[spoiler]You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack).[/spoiler]

Note that it says you keep it unless you don't have the body part required for your breath weapon (namely, a mouth). If, for example, you turn into a gelatinous cube, you wouldn't be able to retain your breath weapon.

Most other things are fine, though.

I read that incorrectly. I read it as you can't use anything that you had to have a specific body part for in your normal form.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2008, 02:31:12 PM »
Touch is a fixed range.

"Fixed range" refers to something that isn't Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 lvls), Medium (100 ft + 10 ft/lvl), or Long (400 ft + 40 ft/lvl).

Fixed range is Personal, Touch, or some measurement such as "40 ft." As in, the range doesn't vary with level.

Not variable = fixed.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
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[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Tshern

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2008, 02:45:39 PM »
You should be able to persist polymorph, since you keep your supernatural abilities (and breath weapons are generally supernatural, unless dragonborn are different).

Polymorph is still stupidly strong, even into epic levels.
Draconic polymorph! Gives you a stupid boost to CON too.

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Tshern

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2008, 02:52:35 PM »
For high constitution score: Behemoth gorilla, CON 35.

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Ithamar

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2008, 03:41:27 PM »
Which book is Behemoth Gorilla from?
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2008, 03:52:13 PM »
Behemoth is, IIRC, a monster (or maybe a template?) from the Epic Level Handbook.

Or was that Monster Manual II?

I forget.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Tshern

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Re: Generic Spellcaster / DMM Persistent Craziness
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2008, 03:54:07 PM »
It's from the Epic Level Handbook. SRD too.

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