Author Topic: Weapon Sizes & Damage Dice  (Read 15672 times)

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Warlawk

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Re: Weapon Sizes & Damage Dice
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2008, 04:05:02 PM »
Let's look at this: If you can wield weapons as if you were one size larger, and if we can agree that Oversized affects how you wield weapons (if we can't agree upon these then I'm afraid I have little intellectual respect for you in this particular case), then it can be argued that for the purposes of Oversized (which affects how you wield weapons), you can wield weapons as if you are one size larger than you are. Since you would actually be large, you would be treated as Huge for Oversized, and thus could wield Gargantuan weapons. That is my argument.

This is where the argument breaks down. You are large. Oversized allows you to wield large or huge weapons because oversized keys off of your base size.
You are large and wielding a huge weapon. Eternal Defender allows you to wield a huge weapon because it keys off of your base size.

Neither ability increases your base size and both of them reference a comparison to your size as the basis for the ability. It could be read to mean that, but it would be wrong since both abilities clearly reference your base size as the basis for the increase. The wording is there and quite clear, I have made my point and you have made yours and I don't see that there is a whole lot more to discuss. If we disagree, we disagree, which is fine since we aren't gaming together :lol.

I also agree that the oversized argument has been done to death, you did put in your OP statements about it being removed as a bad thing... which kind of opens up that can of worms. Happy to drop it though, here's hoping you can find a DM who will let you play oversized, I think it would be fun even though I would feel bad for the other PC's.  :lmao

Nox_Noctis

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Re: Weapon Sizes & Damage Dice
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2008, 06:51:34 PM »

Oversized allows you to wield large or huge weapons because oversized keys off of your base size.
You are large and wielding a huge weapon. Eternal Defender allows you to wield a huge weapon because it keys off of your base size.

It could be read to mean that, but it would be wrong since both abilities clearly reference your base size as the basis for the increase. ... If we disagree, we disagree, which is fine since we aren't gaming together :lol.

I also agree that the oversized argument has been done to death, you did put in your OP statements about it being removed as a bad thing... which kind of opens up that can of worms. Happy to drop it though, here's hoping you can find a DM who will let you play oversized, I think it would be fun even though I would feel bad for the other PC's.  :lmao

Oversized allows you to "use weapons of your size or one size larger than you as if they were your size." Taking this with Giant Size, you can use Large or Huge weapons.

Eternal Defender says, "You can wield weapons as if you were one size larger."

Find me where it says "base size" and I'll concede my argument. The fact that it doesn't is exactly the basis of the argument because the Eternal Defender changes your effective size for the purposes of wielding weapons and Oversized is a wielding effect and thus should use your size as determined by Eternal Defender. "You can wield weapons as if you were [Huge]." + "Use weapons of your size or one size larger as if they were your size." = "Use weapons [Huge] or [Gargantuan] as if they were your size. It doesn't matter that you're actually Large because Eternal Defender makes it so that anything about wielding weapons treats you as Huge.

That said, I don't think we will agree on this, so I'm willing to agree to disagree (it often happens, no harm done). The mechanics of this aren't the point of the thread, really, in any case. I made that remark a short parenthetical statement in the first post for that reason. The point is that stacking such effects leaves us with an odd result on the weapons table.

As a brief side-note: I'm not trying to use this in a game; I have a high tendency not to use anything I post on an Optimization board in an actual game (that isn't to say I don't optimize my characters, but the things I post tend to be for the mental exercise).
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Warlawk

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Re: Weapon Sizes & Damage Dice
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2008, 10:37:05 PM »
We will just have to agree to disagree, no harm no foul. :)

I understand the point you are trying to make, in that one makes you count as larger for the purpose of wielding weapons, and one simply lets you wield weapons larger than normal. I don't agree that it reads that way, but the simple fact of the matter is that the text is written ambiguously enough that both are potentially correct interpretations.

The fact that the damage tables do not extend far enough to allow that stacking I think is a telling point that they were not meant to stack and the text was simply an ambiguous oversight.

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No worries, have fun with it. Mental exercises in rules are a good way to get a better grasp on them. I do the same, but tend to err on the side of playability.