Author Topic: Attacks in "monster"-form?  (Read 2879 times)

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drdenner

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Attacks in "monster"-form?
« on: December 16, 2008, 02:06:18 PM »
A lvl 9 Warforged Artificer polymorph into a Warforged Charger, how many attacks would that give him?

2 +6/+1 slam attacks
or
+6/+1 normal attacks and 2 +6/+1 slam attacks

Are those attacks with natural weapons, and do i then need the feat improved natural attacks? so i dont cause attacks of opotunity (or how ever u spell that)?

In short i have no idee how this polymorph works.

Talisman

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Re: Attacks in "monster"-form?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2008, 03:45:57 PM »
In short i have no idee how this polymorph works.

Welcome to the club. My advice is to ban it entirely.  :eh

In any event, the physical form of a Warforged Charger give you two slam attacks, each doing 1d8+5 damage. Your BAB does not change, and both slam attacks are considered primary attacks, so you get two slams at +11 (+6 BAB, +5 Str).

Natural weapons never gain iterative attacks (monks being an exception), so you can't attack twice with each slam due to your +6/+1 BAB.

Slams are natural weapons, but a slam is considered an armed attack, so you don't provoke AoOs. Transforming into a Warforged Charger gives you its natural weapons, so no feat needed.
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drdenner

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Re: Attacks in "monster"-form?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2008, 06:17:00 PM »
Quote
monks being an exception

And what if i had a lvl in monk? Would Monks belt do the trick?

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Attacks in "monster"-form?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2008, 06:20:25 PM »
Quote
monks being an exception

And what if i had a lvl in monk? Would Monks belt do the trick?

It wouldn't let you iterate your slam attacks, but it would give you an entirely new set of attacks, which you could use on top of the slam attacks. The slams would become secondary attacks, taking a -5 penalty to their attack rolls.
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Re: Attacks in "monster"-form?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2008, 07:33:05 PM »
Quote
monks being an exception

And what if i had a lvl in monk? Would Monks belt do the trick?

He was referring to the fact that Monk Unarmed Strikes are considered natural weapons for multiple purposes, but still grant iterative attacks.  A monk's belt does not grant the monk's unarmed strike ability, just increases your unarmed strike damage.

That said, you can make a series of unarmed strikes regardless of monk level and then use your natural weapons as iterative attacks.  This tactic simply works best with monks, since they get a number of free feats that aid this approach as well as higher unarmed strike damage.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Attacks in "monster"-form?
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2008, 07:39:08 PM »
That said, you can make a series of unarmed strikes regardless of monk level and then use your natural weapons as iterative attacks.  This tactic simply works best with monks, since they get a number of free feats that aid this approach as well as higher unarmed strike damage.
No, you can't use natural weapons as iterative attacks. The only way to do that is to take the Rapid Strike feat chain from the Draconomicon. You can use them as secondary attacks on top of your iterative attack routine. So if you had a monk's belt and a BAB of +6, for example, and two slam attacks, you could attack with your unarmed strikes (now doing damage as a 5th level monk) at +6/+1, and your slams at +1/+1.
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Re: Attacks in "monster"-form?
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2008, 09:43:17 AM »
That said, you can make a series of unarmed strikes regardless of monk level and then use your natural weapons as iterative attacks.  This tactic simply works best with monks, since they get a number of free feats that aid this approach as well as higher unarmed strike damage.
No, you can't use natural weapons as iterative attacks. The only way to do that is to take the Rapid Strike feat chain from the Draconomicon. You can use them as secondary attacks on top of your iterative attack routine. So if you had a monk's belt and a BAB of +6, for example, and two slam attacks, you could attack with your unarmed strikes (now doing damage as a 5th level monk) at +6/+1, and your slams at +1/+1.
That's what I meant to say.  There's too many words in 3.5e.

drdenner

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Re: Attacks in "monster"-form?
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2008, 10:32:08 AM »
Polymorph works like Alter Self, and that spell says i get all the racial feats of the monster too, is that just all the feat listen under the monster in the monster manual?

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Re: Attacks in "monster"-form?
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2008, 11:11:07 AM »
Polymorph works like Alter Self, and that spell says i get all the racial feats of the monster too, is that just all the feat listen under the monster in the monster manual?
It says racial bonus feats. If the feat is marked with a B, it's something the monster gets just by being that species - other feats were learned through experience. You don't gain the experience of the monster you turn into.
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Re: Attacks in "monster"-form?
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2008, 03:00:52 PM »
The racial bonus feats are like the wolf's Track feat. See the B next to it? That means it's a racial bonus feat.
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