Author Topic: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge  (Read 5580 times)

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Saxony

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"Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« on: December 16, 2008, 03:57:50 AM »
My DM recently decided to have us roll up first level commoners with what amounts to 0 point buy. (You roll 3d6 for each stat. No more, no less) The stats for my character are thoroughly locked in. To give you guys an idea of what we're dealing with, my only positive ability modifier is +1 from Intelligence with an ability score of 13. My Strength is at 7.

Our party (somehow) escaped from the underground dungeon after being captured by slavers in a raid (hey, we're commoners) and guess where we ended up after making our getaway and leveling up out of commoner-hood? The Underdark.

Thus, I challenge you guys to somehow come up with a build that will allow this poor apprentice blacksmith halfling, along with similarly beleaguered heroes, to survive in the Underdark with the eventual goal of becoming a chop-stick wielding Assassin at the earliest possible level (No, I am not kidding).

Unfortunately, I am something of a newbie to DnD and haven't really had much time to look over much of the readily available content (My DM has an entire shelf of books). However, I am open to ideas and this post is also a sort of exploration of the "Commoner in the Underdark" idea, so any other sort of builds for this sort of scenario are more than appreciated.

The direction this particular character wants to go into is melee combat with rogue-like activities (such as sneaking, searching, backstabbing, and the aforementioned chop-stick death attacks) going into the mix. Swash-Buckler seemed like good choice before Assassin, considering Weapon-Finesse for free and Insightful Strike at also low levels meaning good synergy with my only good stat and dodging the 7 Strength bullet. I'm pretty sure my DM will even allow me to train Hide, Move Silently, and Disguise whilst taking levels in Swash-Buckler even though none of them are class skills.

For some restrictions on the Swash-Buckler-Assassin, my DM does not allow Psionics and I don't really like playing spellcasters.

Thank you for any help that could be rendered to save these poor commoners from ultimate doom at the hands of a 5th level encounter.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2008, 04:25:00 AM »
Go look in the 3e sourcebook, Savage Species at the survivor prestige class. The commoner is the only class (as far as I know) that can qualify to take this class at level 2. It'd fit with your campaign perfectly.

It'll kick you off to life in the Underdark right quick.

However, it's completely defensive in nature, and has no attack bonus and crummy skills.

After you take all 5 levels (assuming you want to do that), I'd suggest you maybe go rogue, warblade, or swordsage (the latter two coming from The Tome of Battle), and focus on skills and abilities (and maneuvers) that don't require an attack roll.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2008, 04:31:27 AM by Lycanthromancer »
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Surreal

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2008, 04:57:43 AM »
Keeping things simple and within one extra book: Complete Scoundrel. Look up the feat Daring Outlaw, which lets you stack Swashbuckler and Rogue levels for various things. Essentially, juggle your first 6 levels with: commoner 1/swashbuckler 2/rogue 3 and take the feat at 6th level which is when you qualify. From then on, go straight Swashbuckler. You will basically get all the swashbuckler goods, while also getting sneak attack. Maybe ask your DM if he'll let that commoner level stack in there too.

In terms of mechanics, Death Attack is terrible. It's possible to twink it out, but that requires a lot of effort and resources and is still not really worth it. Better to just focus on sneak attacks.

Something to keep in mind though is that sneak attack works better when you have multiple attacks. This usually comes in the form of TWF, but you don't really have the stats for that (you need Dex 15).
« Last Edit: December 16, 2008, 05:04:58 AM by Surreal »
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2008, 06:45:11 AM »
Go look in the 3e sourcebook, Savage Species at the survivor prestige class. The commoner is the only class (as far as I know) that can qualify to take this class at level 2. It'd fit with your campaign perfectly.

It'll kick you off to life in the Underdark right quick.

However, it's completely defensive in nature, and has no attack bonus and crummy skills.

After you take all 5 levels (assuming you want to do that), I'd suggest you maybe go rogue, warblade, or swordsage (the latter two coming from The Tome of Battle), and focus on skills and abilities (and maneuvers) that don't require an attack roll.
+1 to survivor.

Your DM should probably update the skills to 3.5e, though, and see if you can get the "sit around for a month meditating" special requirement waived.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2008, 06:53:18 AM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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aund

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2008, 08:58:13 AM »
how is he going to compensate for the +0 BAB for all lvls of survivor? rogue is not going to pump up the BAB either so he's not going to hit (already assuming weapon finesse to compensate for str 7)
I wouldn't do it. But i love the story hook of your DM. I might try something like that myself =)
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RobbyPants

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2008, 10:30:50 AM »
I agree with surreal in that you can get a decent assassin-like character (without the crappy PrC) with fairly little effort.

Note, you could use this build to entery into Assassin, but I wouldn't bother with it.  I feel that the swashbuckler levels (with Daring Outlaw) get you more than the Assassin levels.
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Prime32

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2008, 10:34:03 AM »
Just don't take more than 3 levels of swashbuckler unless you have Daring Outlaw. They give you nothing.
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woodenbandman

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2008, 10:40:04 AM »
My personal preference of Daring Outlaw is Swash 3/Rogue the rest. Nets you crippling strike, opportunist, and some third thing, and I forget what they do, but the Savvy rogue feat makes them even better. It's gets you sneak attacks of opportunity which you add your int to and deal several strength damage with.

RobbyPants

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2008, 10:47:03 AM »
My personal preference of Daring Outlaw is Swash 3/Rogue the rest. Nets you crippling strike, opportunist, and some third thing, and I forget what they do, but the Savvy rogue feat makes them even better. It's gets you sneak attacks of opportunity which you add your int to and deal several strength damage with.
Ultimately, it depends on if you want skills and some abilities or BAB more.  Personally, I've always wanted to keep my BAB high and go the TWF route, so I take rogue 4/swashbuckler 16, which nets you +19 BAB.

Still, with that one commoner level, it drops your BAB another point.  If you don't care about Uncanny Dodge, you can pull it off with as little as rogue 3.

If the OP wants to focus on melee sneak attacks, I'd suggest the higher BAB (and d10 hit dice).
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Steve: You underestimate my power!
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InnaBinder

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2008, 11:23:32 AM »
Okay, if you're looking for a decent (note I don't say 'great') assassin-type, check Ghost-Faced Killer, in Complete Adventurer.  With your STR, it'll take a small amount of cheese to get in, but it's entirely doable, as follows:

1. Commoner
2. Commoner 1/Rogue 1
3. Commoner 1/Rogue 1/Ranger 1  Take Improved Initiative.
4. Commoner 1/Rogue 1/Ranger 2 with the alternate Strong-Arm Style found in Dragon #326 (found on Crystal Keep HERE: http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Classes-Base.pdf)
5. Commoner 1/Rogue 2/Ranger 2.
6. Commoner 1/Rogue 2/Ranger 3.  Ask your DM about the Feat Telling Blow, and its interaction with Sudden Strike as s/he sees it.  Rules As Written (RAW), it should work with Sudden Strike, but Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV).
7. Commoner 1/Rogue 2/Ranger 3/Swashbuckler 1
8. Commoner 1/Rogue 2/Ranger 3/Swashbuckler 2.

Season to taste; classes need not be taken in the order listed.  Assuming you allocated the appropriate Skill points, you qualify for Ghost-Faced Killer, which is a step up from Assassin while still filling a similar role.  Surreal's suggestion about Daring Outlaw is valid with the above advice.  Another level of Rogue and the Feat Martial Stance from Tome of Battle (for Assassin's Stance) will increase your damage potential by a fair margin.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 12:14:07 AM by InnaBinder »
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RobbyPants

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2008, 11:26:07 AM »
I've always liked the Ghostfaced Killer PrC, not from a power stand point, but from a flavor standpoint.  With the OP playing a halfling, it seems odd to me.  Nothing keeps it from working, but small creatures and GFK don't seem to mix with me.  Still, it is a viable approach.

The only time I ever got to play one, I went in as an Orc Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Rogue 3
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Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

skydragonknight

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2008, 11:45:22 AM »
A couple things you might want to consider:

The Darkstalker feat from Lords of Madness - hide from things with Blindsense and the like.

Ring of the Darkhidden(2000 gold) from MIC - invisible to Darkvision. This item is a MUST. EVERYTHING in the Underdark has Darkvision and you don't. Without this item, you can only hide from them behind cover, because there's no such thing as a "shadow" to someone with darkvision, so you have nowhere to hide.
With this item, you can stay just outside of the party's (everburning) torch and hide. That way when the rest of your party is ambushed, you can ambush the atackers.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2008, 09:30:19 PM »
I hope you have the Infested With Chickens flaw.

Because that so totally makes playing a commoner worthwhile.

Grab the "Throw Anything" feat, and put tons of ranks into Handle Animal, and have your cuckoos chickens attack when you throw them.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2008, 09:34:27 PM by Lycanthromancer »
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 :D
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Saxony

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2008, 11:26:04 PM »
Thanks to everyone who responded. That Daring Outlaw feat is definitely a must-have for this sort of build. The DarkHidden ring is also going to be very key this sneaky, stabby, verbal resposte-type of character. Other ideas were also very appreciated, opening up alternate lanes of investigation on my own.

Now, the thing with this campaign is that it is unlikely to last very long due to our survivability or interest in the game. So, builds geared at "finishing" under 10 levels get brownie points. Builds with at least one level of Assassin get extra brownie points. Also, Intelligence is probably going to be my one and only stat. Any and all feats that require multiple stats in the teens are out for both this character and his fellow commoners. I'm lucky to not have more negative ability modifiers as it is.

I'm really sold on this commoner running about killing people with insane and banal weaponry. Waist-high Halfling death-attacking a Drider with a pair of novelty Chop-Sticks? 5 gold. Chicken-related apparent suicide? Priceless. Infested with Chickens is definitely going to be an integral part of this build.

Thanks again for the help.
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dark_samuari

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2008, 12:58:03 AM »
Also, Intelligence is probably going to be my one and only stat.

You could attempt a factotum..

RobbyPants

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2008, 11:57:44 AM »
Also, Intelligence is probably going to be my one and only stat.
If you insist on Assassin, this could work.  For ten levels, you could go Commoner 1/Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3/Assassin 3.  Just make sure to take that 3rd level of Swashbuckler to get +Int to damage.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

JaronK

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2008, 07:45:19 PM »
Commoner 1/Factotum 8/Assassin 1.  Death attack multiple times per round, and make good use of that Int modifier!

JaronK


JaronK

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2008, 09:54:08 PM »
Hey, he wanted Int synergy, and he wanted an Assassin.  It works!

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skydragonknight

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Re: "Commoner in the Underdark" challenge
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2008, 10:04:00 PM »
Hey, he wanted Int synergy, and he wanted an Assassin.  It works!

JaronK

So you found a way to shorten the three rounds of careful study to a fraction of a second for your many death attacks?
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