Author Topic: Extra Damage Action?  (Read 2198 times)

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Nox_Noctis

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Extra Damage Action?
« on: December 13, 2008, 10:30:29 PM »
There are two main interpretations of the ability (granted by some paragon paths), which specifies it affects "standard action attacks" (which are unfortunately undefined - whereas many things refer to attack powers (often as daily attacks, encounter attack powers, etc.), basic attacks, opportunity attacks, etc.):
1) That this refers to all attacks made as part of a standard action
2) That this refers to an attack made that consumes a standard action
2A) There are also opinions, of this limiting interpretation, that place standard action attack powers in this category (adding the damage once to the damage dealt by the power, regardless of the number of attacks it grants).

While I personally prefer the second definition (including 2A), I want to know which definition is most commonly held to and what the reasons are for each person's choice of interpretation (given that it is not a particularly well-defined area).
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VennDygrem

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Re: Extra Damage Action?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2008, 04:03:47 PM »
Could you give an example of some paragon paths this belongs to?

Anyway, given how other bonuses to damage work, it seems that unless it specifically states it only applies to a single attack, then it would apply to each attack within the Standard action (ie: Warlock's Curse damage is stated as once per round), meaning if you had a power that gave two attacks, the extra damage should apply to each. It's certainly reasonable for it to be ruled this way, unless WotC rules otherwise.

However, since I'm not sure where this ability is located, I'm not entirely sure how to interpret it.

Nox_Noctis

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Re: Extra Damage Action?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2008, 07:57:54 PM »
Warpriest (PHB), Pit Fighter (PHB), Spellstorm Mage (PHB) all have it.
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Warlawk

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Re: Extra Damage Action?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2008, 04:43:08 AM »
Pit fighter specifies

"You also add one-half your level to the damage dealt by any of your standard action attacks this turn."

Bold added by me. It specifies attacks, plural.  It is clearly meant to be added more than one time. Now that can be interpreted to mean only once per standard action, but I do not think this is the correct interpretation. It is clearly a plural, if it was meant to be limited they would have added that text as they already made clear it would be added to multiple attacks.

Just as an aside, before visiting this forum tonight I have never seen anyone interpret it as limited to once per standard action.

Nox_Noctis

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Re: Extra Damage Action?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2008, 08:17:40 AM »
Pit fighter specifies

"You also add one-half your level to the damage dealt by any of your standard action attacks this turn."

Bold added by me. It specifies attacks, plural.  It is clearly meant to be added more than one time. Now that can be interpreted to mean only once per standard action, but I do not think this is the correct interpretation. It is clearly a plural, if it was meant to be limited they would have added that text as they already made clear it would be added to multiple attacks.

Just as an aside, before visiting this forum tonight I have never seen anyone interpret it as limited to once per standard action.

The argument for it applying only once per standard action (or per power or whatever) would be that we have "standard action attacks," "standard action" serving as a modifier for the attacks. Since you will have two such actions (having spent an AP), I find it unclear (hence my asking) whether they mean to say per attack requiring a standard action (remember, many powers are "attack" powers, and many of those require standard actions - so each standard action attack power could be one of the "attacks" to which it refers) or per attack made during a standard action (which is where the damage really explodes, from my observation).

Now, particularly with Manual of the Planes' new information, there is a distinct contrast in the wording of Extra Damage action and Destructive Action and its close relatives. Those state (Destructive Action being referenced, the others similarly worded): "When you spend an action point to take an extra action, you deal 1d12 extra damage on attacks made before the end of your turn. The damage increases to 2d12 at 21st level." The fact that it deals extra dice aside, it makes it quite clear that it applies to all attacks made, no specification of standard actions. This leads me to believe that Extra Damage Action must necessarily be referring to a subset of attacks (since "standard action attacks" are a type of attack but there are others). Whether this subset is all attacks occurring during any standard action or whether it refers once only to a standard action attack power is still open to debate with this though.

Certainly, in my opinion, both have valid arguments in the RAW, even if I personally see the wider interpretation to be unbalanced.
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Eepop

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Re: Extra Damage Action?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2008, 02:18:37 PM »
Just because they found a better wording does not mean it confers a different meaning to the previous text. 

At level 11, the warpriest's extra damage action adds 5 damage.  Destructive action adds 1d12.  Slight edge to Destructive, as its average is a little higher, and that damage would be maximized on a crit.
At level 20, the warpriest's extra damage action adds 10 damage.  Destructive action adds 1d12. Extra damage action is ahead here, but on crits Destructive still gets a little more topend damage.
At level 21, the warpriest's extra damage action adds 10 damage.  Destructive action adds 2d12. Slight edge to Destructive, as its average is a little higher, and that damage would be maximized on a crit.
At level 30, the warpriest's extra damage action adds 15 damage.  Destructive action adds 2d12.  Pretty much equal, warpriest has a better average, but you're getting 9 more points of damage each crit with destructive, and by this time you should have a 19-20 crit.

So in the end, if destructive is worded in a way that it gets to apply to all attacks, extra damage action should as well.