Rules Question for the Fate of the Internets

[PhaedrusXY]

Very nice. 

[ChristopherGroves]

I'm inclined to say somewhere near a moving target is not a location as well (side w/ tshern / phaedrus)

I also agree language is kind of breaking down ... and some of this has to do with our application of real-world details to an abstracted problem.

You can't apply real-world stuff to it ... first you have to look for parallels in the system.  How is the world "location" used in DND?  Forget that your gps can tell you where you are at any point in time and you can work out where you are.  This is the same kind of arguement as when people say the uber archers arrow should fly through that one target and sink through the town behind while breaking the sound barrier ... it might be doing a million points of damage but unless the rules call it out otherwise the arrow reaches the target on your action, there are no sonic booms and it doesn't go ripping through the church behind the target.

So, parallels ... quick search on the SRD


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/discernLocation.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/seeds/reveal.htm

A location as far as I can tell from looking in the rules for parallels is a specific place.  What you're trying to do is, I think, use miracle to both tell you where Dispater (reveal the location) and then go to the location.  I think you're in the realm of 1e wish logic.  It's too soft, you need specifics.

[Tshern]

Note that I am writing these responses as I read the thread, hopefully I am not being superfluous.

I'll side with Bill on this one. I'm going to leave the RAW debate to someone else, but from a fluff perspective I see this as basically using the spell like a homing beacon. You don't care where Jimmy is, but as soon as the spell locates him, everyone is immediately transported there.

Something worth mentioning: Dispater, the man he is trying to teleport next to, is also immune to the divinations of the character in question. This means neither Miracle or Wish can actually help him to locate Dispater and thus the spell has no target square to teleport him in.

Except that Miracle is asking a god to take you there, and he is damn well going to know where Jimmy is.

The caster is the god and he has no idea where Dispater is and Dispater is, as said, passively (seeing his paranoia, probably actively as well) protected against any divinations from the deity in question.

Deific stuff

Some things I'd disallow right off the bat. Say, Divine recall (Speech) and Item familiar at least as well as Guidance of the avatar (not from the allowed sources). Also, luck bonuses don't stack.


So this was my quick take on this.

[Tshern]

A location as far as I can tell from looking in the rules for parallels is a specific place.  What you're trying to do is, I think, use miracle to both tell you where Dispater (reveal the location) and then go to the location.  I think you're in the realm of 1e wish logic.  It's too soft, you need specifics.

Good luck, he is well-protected.

[Bill Bisco: Eloquent Elf]

Something worth mentioning: Dispater, the man he is trying to teleport next to, is also immune to the divinations of the character in question. This means neither Miracle or Wish can actually help him to locate Dispater and thus the spell has no target square to teleport him in.

  Dear Tshern,

Correct me if I am wrong but only Bob's portfolio sense and godly sensory powers (1 mile per divine rank) is rendered ineffective with regards to Dispater.  Divinations, spells, artifacts, and the like are not affected by Spurn the Divine.

Sincerely,
Sean

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Something worth mentioning: Dispater, the man he is trying to teleport next to, is also immune to the divinations of the character in question. This means neither Miracle or Wish can actually help him to locate Dispater and thus the spell has no target square to teleport him in.

  Dear Tshern,

Correct me if I am wrong but only Bob's portfolio sense and godly sensory powers (1 mile per divine rank) is rendered ineffective with regards to Dispater.  Divinations, spells, artifacts, and the like are not affected by Spurn the Divine.

Sincerely,
Sean

AHA!

Bob knows *exactly* where Dispater is.  He just needs to find a sphere he can't sense anything in in Dis, trace the outline, and go to the exact center.

[Tshern]

Something worth mentioning: Dispater, the man he is trying to teleport next to, is also immune to the divinations of the character in question. This means neither Miracle or Wish can actually help him to locate Dispater and thus the spell has no target square to teleport him in.

  Dear Tshern,

Correct me if I am wrong but only Bob's portfolio sense and godly sensory powers (1 mile per divine rank) is rendered ineffective with regards to Dispater.  Divinations, spells, artifacts, and the like are not affected by Spurn the Divine.

Sincerely,
Sean

Supposing he is not protected from divinations.

[Bill Bisco: Eloquent Elf]

Something worth mentioning: Dispater, the man he is trying to teleport next to, is also immune to the divinations of the character in question. This means neither Miracle or Wish can actually help him to locate Dispater and thus the spell has no target square to teleport him in.

  Dear Tshern,

Correct me if I am wrong but only Bob's portfolio sense and godly sensory powers (1 mile per divine rank) is rendered ineffective with regards to Dispater.  Divinations, spells, artifacts, and the like are not affected by Spurn the Divine.

Sincerely,
Sean

Supposing he is not protected from divinations.

So if Dispater is protected from divinations, divinations, spells, artifacts, and the like are affected by Spurn the Divine?

[Alastar]

Most divinations can be easily countered with mordenkainen's private sanctum+mindblank.

[Tshern]

Most divinations can be easily countered with mordenkainen's private sanctum+mindblank.

For example these, yes.

[skydragonknight]

Use wish to create a slotless Helm of Opposite Alignment, with the crafting restriction that it only functions on evil creatures.

So when he becomes CG, it doesn't work for him and he becomes LE, and then it works for him and he becomes CG....do you realize what you've done!

You've BROKEN the GAME. Not the -Balance- of the game. But the ability for an action to be resolved. You've broken the actual GAME.

[Tshern]

The helmet doesn't work twice on the same guy.

[Pauper]

While I like the effort put into the character, this was something of a head-scratcher:

+1   Illiterate
...
Jeffery is, of course, obsessed with language.  It's his schtick.  Years ago he created the common language in an attempt to form a perfect language.

An illiterate god created the Common tongue. Explains an awful lot.

--
Pauper

[The_Mad_Linguist]

While I like the effort put into the character, this was something of a head-scratcher:

+1   Illiterate
...
Jeffery is, of course, obsessed with language.  It's his schtick.  Years ago he created the common language in an attempt to form a perfect language.

An illiterate god created the Common tongue. Explains an awful lot.

--
Pauper

He was born illiterate, so writing seemed so mystical he spent two skill points on it!

Obviously.

[TheWordSlinger]

Use wish to create a slotless Helm of Opposite Alignment, with the crafting restriction that it only functions on evil creatures.

So when he becomes CG, it doesn't work for him and he becomes LE, and then it works for him and he becomes CG....do you realize what you've done!

You've BROKEN the GAME. Not the -Balance- of the game. But the ability for an action to be resolved. You've broken the actual GAME.

And you sir, have caused me to LOSE the GAME.