Author Topic: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge  (Read 87045 times)

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skydragonknight

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #280 on: January 08, 2009, 01:57:19 AM »
Lycan...it's entirely possible to make a valid single-classed Fighter and play it in a normal campaign. Can you make a better psychic warrior? More than likely. But that's not the point. That's not what Surreal is saying.

If I understand what Surreal's saying, he's saying that specialized Fighters still have a role to play in the world of optimization and just as there are many things that PWs can uniquely do well, there are a couple things that Fighters can uniquely do well: such as Knockback-Dungeoncrasher combo and Robilar's Gambit, which PW's have to wait until 17th level(no bonus feat at 16th) to get: and by that level the campaign is usually over since the spellcasters destroy/take over the world.

The fact that I can ONLY think of those two examples means that it's about 90/10 or 95/5 to the psywar in terms of what they can or can't do. Which is exactly what Surreal was saying.
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Ubernoob

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #281 on: January 08, 2009, 04:09:13 AM »
PW uses knockback better than the fighter.  Robilar's Gambit and archery is all there is that the fighter does better (and the cleric does archery better than the fighter, so w/e).
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Midnight_v

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #282 on: January 08, 2009, 04:56:04 AM »
Look, I'm not arguing one way or the other, so no need to continuously rearrange the words to your favour. Even give it 95/5 to the psywar if it makes you feel better. I'm just saying you guys shouldn't be dealing in absolutes. Tout about the psywar's powers as much as you want, but do not dismiss the fighter's +5 BAB and +3 feats as insignificant.

 :lol  :lmao  :lol

He's obviously pranking you guys.
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Wasn't there some law that said.
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Quote
but do not dismiss the fighter's +5 BAB and +3 feats as insignificant
:lol *slaps knee* OH it hurts!

.............................
Seriously though... people deal in absolutes, to some degree its the nature of man.
We want the First/Best/Greatest. etc...
Really though this wasn't even about poo-poo'ing the fighter even more. It was just carnivore challenging it on the tier system he never got anyone to invest enough time to show him till Lycanthromancer.

We should let this thread just die.
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Sunic_Flames

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #283 on: January 08, 2009, 06:39:52 PM »
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Surreal

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #284 on: January 08, 2009, 10:49:34 PM »
I was being serious. Bah, whatever, this thread is dumb.
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awaken DM golem

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #285 on: January 09, 2009, 06:47:12 PM »
Fighter just doesn't have much going for it.
It's not the PsyWar's fault.
Fighter 1 is better than PsyWar 1.
PsyWar that just tries to do exactly what a Fighter does, won't be as good, but have some other things available.
PsyWar overtakes Fighter, perhaps at level 2, perhaps later, but not much later.

{ ... insert I almost forgot smiley face ... }

Oh yeah, and a Recharge set-up seals the deal around level 6.

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And I said : "no , no , no"

They tried to make me go ... nerf powerstones
And I said : "no , no , no"
 :D

Initiative gives the Fighter a chance.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 05:20:03 PM by awaken DM golem »

awaken DM golem

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #286 on: January 17, 2009, 04:54:10 PM »
Hey, I wasn't trying to be the last word here.
Y'know WotC is still rumored to be putting out some more Erratas eventually.
Maybe they'll nerf everything except the Fighter.
 :rollseyes and maybe not.

Fighter is superior to a PsyWar with the Mind's Eye Soulknife-like class sub thingy.
So Fighters are better than PsyWars.
{ ... insert forgot the word "some" smiley face ... }
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 04:56:32 PM by awaken DM golem »

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #287 on: January 18, 2009, 01:47:14 AM »
Is anybody interested in seeing Carnivore's fighter and my psychic warrior pitted against various CR 12 encounters, including tricks and traps and assorted beasties?

My psywar is the underdog, of course, since he's a level behind. :D
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Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
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shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
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Vasja

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #288 on: January 18, 2009, 03:41:41 AM »
If it's not too time-consuming for you, I would be interested in seeing that. I was thinking of using a psychic warrior very similar to yours in a campaign forming in my area. This would definitely help me out  :)

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #289 on: January 18, 2009, 05:53:18 AM »
Agreed with Vasja, should be fun to watch and to pick up a trick or two :)

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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #290 on: January 21, 2009, 03:01:33 PM »
Would anybody like to act as a DM, choose the appropriate encounters, and run a quickie PbP session with a pseudo-adventure?
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

DetectiveJabsco

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #291 on: January 23, 2009, 07:30:12 AM »
I have not said anything through out this topic but would it not be more realistic to not pit them ageist each other but make builds that play to each others weaknesses and see the highest CR that can be beat at certain levels. Most games do not involve any PvP and No one I repeat No one wants to play in a game where they are constantly overshadowed.
-Jabsco

Edit: How ever if something along these lines would like to be played out, I could DM short Adventures Where no one would gain any experience and something similar to a gauntlet would be set up. A serious of rooms with increasing CR and Tactics. Some sort of Rest before each level could be worked out.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 07:32:46 AM by DetectiveJabsco »

Eldariel

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #292 on: January 23, 2009, 08:06:08 AM »
Doesn't Fighter get Dungeoncrasher, Overpowering Attack, Zhentarim Fighter Subs (and thus makes for a decent Intimidator with Imperious Command; thanks to not needing Wis, Fighter can actually afford it too), less attribute dependancy (no need for Wis), better Will-saves (thanks to Resolute), more skillpoints for...say Knowledge Devotion (Thug) and earlier access to worthwhile feats (Shock Trooper, Robilar's Gambit) though? I mean, I'm not saying Fighter comes out ahead, but to say that Fighter has nothing on Psy War is pretty dumb.

Dungeoncrasher certainly enables builds Psy War simply cannot try, Zhentarim Fighter Subs allow Fighter to actually make for a decent Intimidator, Knowledge Devotion + RWM are actually relevant as far as archery goes (good luck getting 6 Knowledges maxed as Psy War), etc.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #293 on: January 23, 2009, 04:09:02 PM »
more skillpoints for...say Knowledge Devotion (Thug)
How does a fighter have more skillpoints? From less MAD? Because he has no useful skills on his class list to spend his on otherwise?
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Tshern

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #294 on: January 23, 2009, 04:20:33 PM »
Maybe the Thug variant has four. Not sure though.

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carnivore

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #295 on: January 23, 2009, 05:51:56 PM »
the Thug Variant .... gets 4 Skill points per lvl... with these Class Skills:

Bluff
Climb
Craft
Gather Information
Handle Animal
Intimidate
Jump
Knowledge (local)
Ride
Sleight of Hand
Swim

what i did was use the Skilled City-Dweller Variant, and exchange Ride for Tumble

Knowledge Devotion gives you an additional Knowledge Skill, but requires 5 ranks in a single Knowledge skill as a prerequisite.... fortunately Thug has Knowledge(Local) as a Class Skill

since you really only need 6 Knowledge Skills for Knowledge Devotion, and Knowledge(Local) is one of them and Knowledge Devotion gives you an additional one.... you only have to spend points in 4 Cross Class Skills.... they really dont even need to be maxed out to give a Nice benifit since the Insight Bonuses to Hit and Damage, stack with most everything else the Fighter will get

 :D

ninjarabbit

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #296 on: January 23, 2009, 06:40:30 PM »
Doesn't the half elf fighter variant get 4 skill points/level at level 1 and a few other levels, it's still not a good enough reason to be a half elf though.

carnivore

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #297 on: January 23, 2009, 06:50:35 PM »
heres an interesting choice:

Warforged Fighter Substitution Levels (RE, p 130): d12 hitdice. Add craft and intimidate to class skills
1st level: Battle Hardened (+3 to initiative checks and saves vs fear), lose bonus feat


or

Dwarf Fighter Substitution Levels (RS, p 146): d12 hitdice, gain knowledge: dungeoneering
1st level: Axe Focus (+1 attack with axes), lose feat

you gain a lot, and lose Nothing really.... since the Axe focus can qualify as Weapon Focus(Axe)

 :D

Emy

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #298 on: January 23, 2009, 07:38:18 PM »
I'm no expert on fighters, nor do I really love or hate them, but carnivore, certainly you meant to bold that first sub level like this:

Warforged Fighter Substitution Levels (RE, p 130): d12 hitdice. Add craft and intimidate to class skills
1st level: Battle Hardened (+3 to initiative checks and saves vs fear), lose bonus feat

juton

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Re: Psychic Warrior vs Fighter challenge
« Reply #299 on: January 23, 2009, 08:32:27 PM »
Going into the class variants in UA is legal but strikes me as having to reach a little bit too far. I'd love to see a Fighter and a Psychic Warrior thrown through a few appropriate encounters, all debate is kind of pointless.