Author Topic: Warlock Information Compilation  (Read 163586 times)

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Solo

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #140 on: November 10, 2010, 07:31:07 PM »
I don't believe you can progress Chameleon casting with prestige classes. Remember, it doesn't count as far as prerequisites go.

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bearsarebrown

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #141 on: November 10, 2010, 07:32:58 PM »
I don't believe you can progress Chameleon casting with prestige classes. Remember, it doesn't count as far as prerequisites go.
Why shouldn't you be able to progress it? You can qualify with other spellcasting classes. PrCs which advance spellcasting do not specify that you must advance in the class which is used to qualify.

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #142 on: November 10, 2010, 07:36:53 PM »
I don't believe you can progress Chameleon casting with prestige classes. Remember, it doesn't count as far as prerequisites go.
Why shouldn't you be able to progress it? You can qualify with other spellcasting classes. PrCs which advance spellcasting do not specify that you must advance in the class which is used to qualify.
Because of this clause:

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Nanshork

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #143 on: November 10, 2010, 07:39:45 PM »
I don't believe you can progress Chameleon casting with prestige classes. Remember, it doesn't count as far as prerequisites go.
Why shouldn't you be able to progress it? You can qualify with other spellcasting classes. PrCs which advance spellcasting do not specify that you must advance in the class which is used to qualify.
Because of this clause:

Quote

Your quote has nothing to do with his argument.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #144 on: November 10, 2010, 07:41:07 PM »
I don't believe you can progress Chameleon casting with prestige classes. Remember, it doesn't count as far as prerequisites go.
Why shouldn't you be able to progress it? You can qualify with other spellcasting classes. PrCs which advance spellcasting do not specify that you must advance in the class which is used to qualify.
Because of this clause:

Quote

That didn't disprove any of bearsarebrown's post.  You don't use Chameleon to qualify, you use something else, and advance Chameleon because it's a spellcasting class.

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #145 on: November 10, 2010, 07:42:21 PM »
"other option"

Thus, it does not qualify as a spellcasting class.  Thus, when PrCs say they can progress a spellcasting class, it is not on the list of things they can progress.  Thus, you cannot progress chameleon spellcasting, unless the class also progresses spellcasting of classes that don't have spellcasting, or progresses based on a different basis (this class progresses the spellcasting of any class that begins with 'c', for example).
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Cagemarrow

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #146 on: November 10, 2010, 07:53:23 PM »
Well that's disappointing, didn't see that part as it wasn't listed under the aptitude focus section. I've got a couple of levels to play with though so could maybe use a different class to thuerge with.

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #147 on: November 10, 2010, 08:24:35 PM »
"other option"

Thus, it does not qualify as a spellcasting class.  Thus, when PrCs say they can progress a spellcasting class, it is not on the list of things they can progress.  Thus, you cannot progress chameleon spellcasting, unless the class also progresses spellcasting of classes that don't have spellcasting, or progresses based on a different basis (this class progresses the spellcasting of any class that begins with 'c', for example).
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Ivory Knight

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #148 on: November 11, 2010, 07:19:58 AM »
Just curious: Would Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion work with Chameleon?
Both progress "+1 level of existing class features", IIRC 2/3 and 7-8/10?

Warlock-specific: Both PrC's would work with the doubleprogressions(here: Eldritch Disciple or Eldritch Theurg)?

Havok4

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #149 on: November 11, 2010, 11:48:16 AM »
Just curious: Would Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion work with Chameleon?
Both progress "+1 level of existing class features", IIRC 2/3 and 7-8/10?

Warlock-specific: Both PrC's would work with the doubleprogressions(here: Eldritch Disciple or Eldritch Theurg)?
I see no reason why it would not work.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #150 on: November 11, 2010, 12:08:54 PM »
It doesn't qualify as having class features to advance. According to TML's reading.

Havok4

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #151 on: November 11, 2010, 01:11:34 PM »
It doesn't qualify as having class features to advance. According to TML's reading.

But the class feature progression does not check anything, it only checks to see if you are progressing a class, which chameleon does qualify for.  The abilities like spell casting gained from chameleon do not qualify as class features, but the aptitude focus ability itself does qualify so legacy champion would progress it. In fact xyz8/chameleon 2/legacy champion 10 loses nothing from chameleon and gains a good will save and the legacy champion abilities.

wotmaniac

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #152 on: November 11, 2010, 02:24:31 PM »
The abilities like spell casting gained from chameleon do not qualify as class features, but the aptitude focus ability itself does qualify so legacy champion would progress it.
and since chameleon spellcasting is a function of aptitude focus .....  :clap

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bearsarebrown

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #153 on: November 11, 2010, 02:49:54 PM »
It doesn't qualify as having class features to advance. According to TML's reading.

But the class feature progression does not check anything, it only checks to see if you are progressing a class, which chameleon does qualify for.  The abilities like spell casting gained from chameleon do not qualify as class features, but the aptitude focus ability itself does qualify so legacy champion would progress it. In fact xyz8/chameleon 2/legacy champion 10 loses nothing from chameleon and gains a good will save and the legacy champion abilities.
Oh okay. I get it now. Strange how it works like that. Can't progress parts of the whole, only the whole.

Tenebrus

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #154 on: December 04, 2010, 01:56:40 PM »
Sorry if this has been covered before but I have a Hideous Blow question.

Some assert that HB stinks because you have to cast EB in 1 round, strike in the next, cast again in the next, strike in the next, etc.  But reading the description says no such thing.  "If you hit, the target is affected as if struck by your eldritch blast" (emphasis mine).  That says to me that attack and EB damage both happen at the same time, with no need to waste rounds.

This also makes sense with Eldritch Glaive.  You get a lot more flexibility with EG but lose the weapon damage.

Am I missing something?

snakeman830

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #155 on: December 04, 2010, 02:01:42 PM »
No, you're not.  Still no reason whatsoever to use Hideous Blow, however.
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Garryl

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #156 on: December 04, 2010, 02:02:41 PM »
Yup, you've got that right, Tenebrus. Hideous Blow is a single action that deals weapon damage plus EB damage/effects.

Similarly, eldritch glaive is a single action to form your "glaive" and make a full attack with it. While you don't get the base weapon damage that HB grants, EG lets you make your attacks as touch attacks and allows you to make a full attack (instead of being limited to a single attack). That usually makes it pull ahead in most respects.
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Tenebrus

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #157 on: December 04, 2010, 03:12:44 PM »
No, you're not.  Still no reason whatsoever to use Hideous Blow, however.

How about for a Fighter-3/Warlock 1 armed with a (real) glaive?  1d10+1d6+Strength+2x power attack isn't so shabby.  S/he becomes a Fighter-4/Warlock-3 doing 1d10+2d6+2+strength+2x power attack and still qualifies for Improved Critical at 9th.

Note that this is for a non-ToB campaign.

CantripN

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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #158 on: December 04, 2010, 03:14:51 PM »
Hideous Blow is also a Standard Action and just 1 attack. Even of the damage may be higher at low levels, it's also less likely to land.

That Fighter 4 / Warlock 3 could instead make 2 attacks with his Eldritch Glaive.
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Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #159 on: December 05, 2010, 02:05:52 PM »
What would be a recommended Gestalt combo for a Warlock?
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