Author Topic: Warlock Information Compilation  (Read 147244 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Solo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2684
  • Solo the Sorcelator, at your service
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #140 on: November 11, 2010, 12:31:07 AM »
I don't believe you can progress Chameleon casting with prestige classes. Remember, it doesn't count as far as prerequisites go.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

bearsarebrown

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #141 on: November 11, 2010, 12:32:58 AM »
I don't believe you can progress Chameleon casting with prestige classes. Remember, it doesn't count as far as prerequisites go.
Why shouldn't you be able to progress it? You can qualify with other spellcasting classes. PrCs which advance spellcasting do not specify that you must advance in the class which is used to qualify.

InnaBinder

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1610
  • OnnaTable
    • Okay - - Your Turn: Monte Cook's Message Board
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #142 on: November 11, 2010, 12:36:53 AM »
I don't believe you can progress Chameleon casting with prestige classes. Remember, it doesn't count as far as prerequisites go.
Why shouldn't you be able to progress it? You can qualify with other spellcasting classes. PrCs which advance spellcasting do not specify that you must advance in the class which is used to qualify.
Because of this clause:

Quote
You can’t use any abilities gained from your aptitude focus, ability boon, or mimic class feature abilities to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other option.
Winning an argument on the internet is like winning in the Special Olympics.  You won, but you're still retarded.

I made a Handbook!?

Nanshork

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2146
  • BOO!
    • Email
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #143 on: November 11, 2010, 12:39:45 AM »
I don't believe you can progress Chameleon casting with prestige classes. Remember, it doesn't count as far as prerequisites go.
Why shouldn't you be able to progress it? You can qualify with other spellcasting classes. PrCs which advance spellcasting do not specify that you must advance in the class which is used to qualify.
Because of this clause:

Quote
You can’t use any abilities gained from your aptitude focus, ability boon, or mimic class feature abilities to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other option.

Your quote has nothing to do with his argument.
My babies - A thread of random builds I've come up with over the years.
Notes to self

KellKheraptis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2668
  • What's the matter? I thought you had me...
    • Email
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #144 on: November 11, 2010, 12:41:07 AM »
I don't believe you can progress Chameleon casting with prestige classes. Remember, it doesn't count as far as prerequisites go.
Why shouldn't you be able to progress it? You can qualify with other spellcasting classes. PrCs which advance spellcasting do not specify that you must advance in the class which is used to qualify.
Because of this clause:

Quote
You can’t use any abilities gained from your aptitude focus, ability boon, or mimic class feature abilities to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other option.

That didn't disprove any of bearsarebrown's post.  You don't use Chameleon to qualify, you use something else, and advance Chameleon because it's a spellcasting class.

EDIT : Ninja'd by Nanshork :ninja
BG's Resident Black Hatter
The Mango List Reborn!
My Warmage Trickery (coming soon!)
My PrC Pally Trickery (coming soon!)
The D&D Archive
-Work in progress!

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #145 on: November 11, 2010, 12:42:21 AM »
"other option"

Thus, it does not qualify as a spellcasting class.  Thus, when PrCs say they can progress a spellcasting class, it is not on the list of things they can progress.  Thus, you cannot progress chameleon spellcasting, unless the class also progresses spellcasting of classes that don't have spellcasting, or progresses based on a different basis (this class progresses the spellcasting of any class that begins with 'c', for example).
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Cagemarrow

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 470
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #146 on: November 11, 2010, 12:53:23 AM »
Well that's disappointing, didn't see that part as it wasn't listed under the aptitude focus section. I've got a couple of levels to play with though so could maybe use a different class to thuerge with.

InnaBinder

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1610
  • OnnaTable
    • Okay - - Your Turn: Monte Cook's Message Board
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #147 on: November 11, 2010, 01:24:35 AM »
"other option"

Thus, it does not qualify as a spellcasting class.  Thus, when PrCs say they can progress a spellcasting class, it is not on the list of things they can progress.  Thus, you cannot progress chameleon spellcasting, unless the class also progresses spellcasting of classes that don't have spellcasting, or progresses based on a different basis (this class progresses the spellcasting of any class that begins with 'c', for example).
DING!
Winning an argument on the internet is like winning in the Special Olympics.  You won, but you're still retarded.

I made a Handbook!?

Ivory Knight

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 325
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #148 on: November 11, 2010, 12:19:58 PM »
Just curious: Would Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion work with Chameleon?
Both progress "+1 level of existing class features", IIRC 2/3 and 7-8/10?

Warlock-specific: Both PrC's would work with the doubleprogressions(here: Eldritch Disciple or Eldritch Theurg)?

Havok4

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2144
  • It can only be attributable to human error.
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #149 on: November 11, 2010, 04:48:16 PM »
Just curious: Would Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion work with Chameleon?
Both progress "+1 level of existing class features", IIRC 2/3 and 7-8/10?

Warlock-specific: Both PrC's would work with the doubleprogressions(here: Eldritch Disciple or Eldritch Theurg)?
I see no reason why it would not work.

bearsarebrown

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #150 on: November 11, 2010, 05:08:54 PM »
It doesn't qualify as having class features to advance. According to TML's reading.

Havok4

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2144
  • It can only be attributable to human error.
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #151 on: November 11, 2010, 06:11:34 PM »
It doesn't qualify as having class features to advance. According to TML's reading.

But the class feature progression does not check anything, it only checks to see if you are progressing a class, which chameleon does qualify for.  The abilities like spell casting gained from chameleon do not qualify as class features, but the aptitude focus ability itself does qualify so legacy champion would progress it. In fact xyz8/chameleon 2/legacy champion 10 loses nothing from chameleon and gains a good will save and the legacy champion abilities.

wotmaniac

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2207
  • Emperor's Enforcer
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #152 on: November 11, 2010, 07:24:31 PM »
The abilities like spell casting gained from chameleon do not qualify as class features, but the aptitude focus ability itself does qualify so legacy champion would progress it.
and since chameleon spellcasting is a function of aptitude focus .....  :clap

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.

bearsarebrown

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #153 on: November 11, 2010, 07:49:54 PM »
It doesn't qualify as having class features to advance. According to TML's reading.

But the class feature progression does not check anything, it only checks to see if you are progressing a class, which chameleon does qualify for.  The abilities like spell casting gained from chameleon do not qualify as class features, but the aptitude focus ability itself does qualify so legacy champion would progress it. In fact xyz8/chameleon 2/legacy champion 10 loses nothing from chameleon and gains a good will save and the legacy champion abilities.
Oh okay. I get it now. Strange how it works like that. Can't progress parts of the whole, only the whole.

Tenebrus

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
    • Email
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #154 on: December 04, 2010, 06:56:40 PM »
Sorry if this has been covered before but I have a Hideous Blow question.

Some assert that HB stinks because you have to cast EB in 1 round, strike in the next, cast again in the next, strike in the next, etc.  But reading the description says no such thing.  "If you hit, the target is affected as if struck by your eldritch blast" (emphasis mine).  That says to me that attack and EB damage both happen at the same time, with no need to waste rounds.

This also makes sense with Eldritch Glaive.  You get a lot more flexibility with EG but lose the weapon damage.

Am I missing something?

snakeman830

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3494
  • BG's resident furry min/maxxer
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #155 on: December 04, 2010, 07:01:42 PM »
No, you're not.  Still no reason whatsoever to use Hideous Blow, however.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Garryl

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1240
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #156 on: December 04, 2010, 07:02:41 PM »
Yup, you've got that right, Tenebrus. Hideous Blow is a single action that deals weapon damage plus EB damage/effects.

Similarly, eldritch glaive is a single action to form your "glaive" and make a full attack with it. While you don't get the base weapon damage that HB grants, EG lets you make your attacks as touch attacks and allows you to make a full attack (instead of being limited to a single attack). That usually makes it pull ahead in most respects.
A Guide to Free D&D - A resource of free, official D&D resources on the web.
General listing of my homebrew.
Links to things I've worked on
[spoiler]
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
Adaptations Handbook - Under construction.
[/spoiler]

Tenebrus

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
    • Email
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #157 on: December 04, 2010, 08:12:44 PM »
No, you're not.  Still no reason whatsoever to use Hideous Blow, however.

How about for a Fighter-3/Warlock 1 armed with a (real) glaive?  1d10+1d6+Strength+2x power attack isn't so shabby.  S/he becomes a Fighter-4/Warlock-3 doing 1d10+2d6+2+strength+2x power attack and still qualifies for Improved Critical at 9th.

Note that this is for a non-ToB campaign.

CantripN

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1199
  • Constantly talking isn't necessarily communicating
    • Cantrip, Gestalt Gish
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #158 on: December 04, 2010, 08:14:51 PM »
Hideous Blow is also a Standard Action and just 1 attack. Even of the damage may be higher at low levels, it's also less likely to land.

That Fighter 4 / Warlock 3 could instead make 2 attacks with his Eldritch Glaive.
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

snakeman830

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3494
  • BG's resident furry min/maxxer
Re: Warlock Information Compilation
« Reply #159 on: December 05, 2010, 07:05:52 PM »
What would be a recommended Gestalt combo for a Warlock?
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.