[3.5 Unearthed Arcana] Using LA Buyoff for a pc while adding a template

[xeno121]

I have a lv8 character who I want to become a Karsite.
 Buying off LA works off the assumption you benefitted from the abilities the entire time thus xp loss is based around having a higher amount of xp at the break points (lv 6 and 9) but effectively level 8 and 11.

 How would adding a Karsite's abilities on top of a human work in this situation? How much xp should I have to pay and when should I get the abilities?

Not sure if this is in the right section but it didn't seem min/max enough to fit there

[AfterCrescent]

Okay, I'm not 100% certain, but I'll safely assume the Karsite has a LA+2.
Also, you're starting at level 8. Okay.
This is all according to the LA reduction rules from UA.

First, you get ALL the Karsite abilities. That's just how it works. If you want to work with your DM for a scaling ability/template class that's cool, but normally you just get everything at once.
Now your ECL is 10. Your class levels are 8, which is 3x your LA or more. So you can reduce the LA to +1 instead of +2.
You pay your ECL-1 (9) x 1,000 XP. So you need to pay 9,000 XP, when you have it.
Repeat the process at 11th level (ECL 12-1 = 11,000XP).

As you currently stand, you are ECL 10 with the experience of an ECL 8 character. Thus, until you have enough XP to get you to level 11, you won't level. Once you have 9,000XP you can spend it and lower yourself to ECL 9 (and then, when you get enough XP to level to 10, you'll level again). By that time your party will likely have gotten to ECL 9 (since you were 2 ECLs above them, you gained less XP). And you should be able to catch up quickly.

[xeno121]

Wouldn't I be ECL 8?

9000 xp drops me a level per the UA rules(has to be enough to lower my level by one.

So 7 character levels + LA 1 = 8

So I wouldn't level to 8 until I gained xp equal to a 9th level character correct?

But based on the rules I have to pay it at 6th level but I'm adding it at the same time I'm paying it off, so would I pay my current or for when I would've been 6th( 7000xp vs 9000xp)

And then when I gain 9 character levels I'm eligible to reduce it to LA +0 by pay 9000xp

[AfterCrescent]

I'm assuming you have 8 class levels when you acquire the template. Assuming that, your ECL shoots to 10 (8 levels +2 LA). Now you need 9,000XP. Unfortunately, you can't spend XP when it would cause you to decrease a level. So if you have 8 Class levels, you're stuck with that.

Should you only have 7 levels and enough XP to level to 8, then that's another story (you'd still be shy 1,000XP. I suggest a thought bottle, if possible ). With 7 levels and extra XP, you'd only need 8,000XP to buy off 1, and then, yes, you'd be ECL 8.  If your DM allows you to pull that off, go for it.

So I wouldn't level to 8 until I gained xp equal to a 9th level character correct?

In the above example, yes.

But based on the rules I have to pay it at 6th level but I'm adding it at the same time I'm paying it off, so would I pay my current or for when I would've been 6th( 7000xp vs 9000xp)

Based on the rules you CAN pay it as early as 6. That's, of course, the smart move. But if you don't, you'd pay for it whenever you can (re: Now, which costs more XP).

And then when I gain 9 character levels I'm eligible to reduce it to LA +0 by pay 9000xp

When you gain an ADDITIONAL 3 character levels after you've paid off one LA, you may pay off the last +1 LA at your then current ECL-1 x 1,000XP.

[xeno121]

Ok, I understand now.  I thought the xp paid was to reduce your character level and reduce LA(sort of like taking a phantom level in Karsite.

I have 33398xp BUT I received that xp while at lv7 and leveled to 8 yesterday without doing anything with it.  I brought Karsite to his attention and could discuss it with the DM whether or not I have to keep that level and then that would be enough to reduce my LA by one making me an ECL8 character (7CL+1LA) after paying 8000xp.  Or I have to wai tuntil I have 37k xp saved up.

[xeno121]

Would the fact the DM assigns the same amount of xp make adding LA to my chatacter a less attractive option.

Ie.  A 5th level character gets the same xp as an 8th level character.

[EjoThims]

It would make it more attractive, as the 8th ECL character should be getting less xp.

But overall, how LA reduction works is that when, once you reach an appropriate character level (given on the chart and based off your total LA, not per template/race), you spend the xp, gain one level, and reduce your LA by one, causing your ECL to remain the same.

[xeno121]

So in a group made of lv8-6s how would I get the Template added, since if I add it at lv7, I advance to 8th level pay the xp and have an LA of 1 so ECL9.  A level above the rest.  We're only 3k? Away from next level so should I simply make the assertion that in a fight or 2 everyone would catch up to me?

Also is there a feat that improves natural SR?  And how useful is SR through the levels?

[EjoThims]

So in a group made of lv8-6s how would I get the Template added, since if I add it at lv7, I advance to 8th level pay the xp and have an LA of 1 so ECL9.

Wrong.

In the example of your level 8 character, you add the LA one template, making your ECL 9.

When you have enough exp to gain from ECL 9 to ECL 10, you decide to buy off the template. You go from class level 8 to class level 9. You lose your LA, taking you down to ECL 9. You also lose experience, putting you at the total for ECL 9 instead of ECL 10.

You're now a 9th level character, with the experience of a 9th level character.

When you buy off LA, you trade a class level for an LA, but your ECL remains the same, and you have the minimum experience for that ECL.

[xeno121]

Ok I think I got it right.

I reach level 8. I add the Karsite template which is LA+2.  I'm ECL10.  I pay 9k xp. I reduce my la by 1.  I'm now ECL9.

The 9k xp I paid drops my xp total from 33k to 24k I then need to get a total of 36k to reach level 9 and then pay off the rest.

I kept thinking the fact my xp dropped beneath the previous threshhold meant I dropped a character level too since it read must reduce ecl.

With xp split evenly and if I understand this correctly wouldn't I be hurting myself because while I gain enough xp to hit lv10 the group will be lv12 but I won't receive additional xp to speed that up.  So there will always be a 2 level gap between me and the highest level characters and the CR of the enemies.

I believe that's how it works and my concerns about the acquisition rate of xp.

[EjoThims]

So there will always be a 2 level gap between me and the highest level characters and the CR of the enemies.

Wrong. Even if you're not receiving the proper boost in your acquired exp based on your lower than party CR, it will take you less exp to level up, and eventually you will be the same level again, though you will always be a certain exp value behind.