Author Topic: Elf Spellsword  (Read 20320 times)

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Ubernoob

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2008, 01:36:37 PM »
Duskblade 3 / Wizard 3 / Ultimate Magus 10 / Wizard advancing class 4 ****

*** some combination of Wizard, Master Specialist, Spellsword 1, Ajburant Champion, etc.
How about no.
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RobbyPants

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2008, 01:43:58 PM »
The main problem with this build is that it completely misses out on the main reason for taking Spellsword: channeling spells!
I forgot you wanted to do that.

I was going to suggest taking a 5th level of spellsword so long as you're taking four, but your saves won't advance at that level.  What type of armor are you thinking of wearing?  Will the jump from ignoring 15% to 20% arcane spell failure matter?  Either way, you can cast in mithril breast plate.
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woodenbandman

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2008, 02:09:51 PM »
Consider taking Bard7/Sublime Chord1/Spellsword5/Abjurant Champion5/Sublime Chord +2 or something, which gets you channel spell, 9th level spells, and you can take a feat to get the ability to cast in medium armor (Mithral full plate, anyone?)

GawainBS

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2008, 02:37:06 PM »
@ woodenbandman: And you would have an extremely limited spell selection, which isn't good for Gishes.

J0lt: I see you're going to take a thinblade. Really, a courtblade is better: two damage types, also finessable and can be used twohanded for Power Attacking fun. I did go the Thinblade route once, and I regretted it. there's no need whatsoever to use a shield.

Somatic weaponry is superfluous then, since taking a hand of a twohanded weapon is a free action.

Improved Critical is not so great: just make your weapon keen.

I don't know if Spell Penetration is worth it. One casting of Create Magic Tattoo grants the same benefit and more...

I'm more for Quicken Spell & Extend Spell.

Also, despite what uber says, Abjurant Champion is a great PrC for a gish.

ChristopherGroves

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2008, 02:39:33 PM »
Duskblade 3 / Wizard 3 / Ultimate Magus 10 / Wizard advancing class 4 ****

*** some combination of Wizard, Master Specialist, Spellsword 1, Ajburant Champion, etc.
How about no.

If what he wants to do is channel spells this lets him channel spells more losing less spell levels ... how about meets the theme he's trying to aim for ... better than what he was doing ...

Do I think it's an awesome super build?  No, not at all.  Losing 3 levels is better than losing 4 and 9th level spells.

I'm trying to respond to the OPs ACTUAL REQUEST ... and it all has to do with channeling spells.

Ubernoob

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2008, 02:41:17 PM »
Also, despite what uber says, Abjurant Champion is a great PrC for a gish.
I never said it wasn't great.  I said it was overrated.  It still requires you to lose CL to get in on a decent schedule and costs you a feat without returning much in the way of class abilities.  For full bab over medium, that's just not exceptional.  It's very solid, but not worth getting excited about.
Quote
If what he wants to do is channel spells this lets him channel spells more losing less spell levels ... how about meets the theme he's trying to aim for ... better than what he was doing ...

Do I think it's an awesome super build?  No, not at all.  Losing 3 levels is better than losing 4 and 9th level spells.
And?  He's actually better off with wizard 20 taking smiting spell than that build.
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ChristopherGroves

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2008, 02:51:35 PM »
He's better off doing Wizard 20 and taking Smiting Spell than HIS build that gets him 8th level spells.

He's better off being a Druid.


....

He asked for help with Spellsword, specifically saying he likes and wants to channel spells as part of the build.

Ubernoob

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2008, 02:53:38 PM »
He's better off doing Wizard 20 and taking Smiting Spell than HIS build that gets him 8th level spells.

He's better off being a Druid.


....

He asked for help with Spellsword, specifically saying he likes and wants to channel spells as part of the build.
And duskblade doesn't help with that if you multiclass because it only works for duskblade spells.  I'm not trying to be mean here.  I'm just trying to make sure the OP doesn't get a build that's worse than what he started with.
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ChristopherGroves

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2008, 02:56:24 PM »
Quote from: ubernoob
And duskblade doesn't help with that if you multiclass because it only works for duskblade spells.  I'm not trying to be mean here.  I'm just trying to make sure the OP doesn't get a build that's worse than what he started with.
That might explain your reaction; read the Duskblade again.  Duskblades can channel any spells ... not just Duskblade spells.  This is why Duskblade -> Ur Priest is so funny ...
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 05:06:36 PM by ChristopherGroves »

GawainBS

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2008, 03:02:43 PM »
Also, despite what uber says, Abjurant Champion is a great PrC for a gish.
I never said it wasn't great.  I said it was overrated.  It still requires you to lose CL to get in on a decent schedule and costs you a feat without returning much in the way of class abilities.  For full bab over medium, that's just not exceptional.  It's very solid, but not worth getting excited about.
Quote
If what he wants to do is channel spells this lets him channel spells more losing less spell levels ... how about meets the theme he's trying to aim for ... better than what he was doing ...

Do I think it's an awesome super build?  No, not at all.  Losing 3 levels is better than losing 4 and 9th level spells.
And?  He's actually better off with wizard 20 taking smiting spell than that build.

Well, I entered AbjCh via Swiftblade, which made me lose only 1 CL. Downside is, that Swiftblade requires two weak feats. Still, after a few levels of Spellsword, you're better off with AbjCh anyway.

Ubernoob

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2008, 03:04:02 PM »
Also, despite what uber says, Abjurant Champion is a great PrC for a gish.
I never said it wasn't great.  I said it was overrated.  It still requires you to lose CL to get in on a decent schedule and costs you a feat without returning much in the way of class abilities.  For full bab over medium, that's just not exceptional.  It's very solid, but not worth getting excited about.
Quote
If what he wants to do is channel spells this lets him channel spells more losing less spell levels ... how about meets the theme he's trying to aim for ... better than what he was doing ...

Do I think it's an awesome super build?  No, not at all.  Losing 3 levels is better than losing 4 and 9th level spells.
And?  He's actually better off with wizard 20 taking smiting spell than that build.

Well, I entered AbjCh via Swiftblade, which made me lose only 1 CL. Downside is, that Swiftblade requires two weak feats. Still, after a few levels of Spellsword, you're better off with AbjCh anyway.

If you're using swiftblade levels you need to compare the abjurant champion levels with things like unseen seer (same book).  Frankly, Unseen seer and AC are quite on par with each other when grouped with swiftblade levels.

AC is nice.  It's just not as nice as everyone thinks it is.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2008, 03:21:57 PM »
Why take the 10th level of Eldritch Knight instead of the 5th level of Spellsword?

Also, here is an old thread on building spellswords specifically for using Channel Spell. I think the best was probably DaveTheMagicWeasel's suggestion:

Bard 4 / Fighter 1 / Spellsword 5 / Sublime Chord 2 / Sacred Exorcist 8

That gets you BAB +16, 9th level spells, channel spell and turn undead (use it for Divine Might, DMM only really works if you can take Southern Magician).
[spoiler]
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RobbyPants

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2008, 03:27:55 PM »
Why take the 10th level of Eldritch Knight instead of the 5th level of Spellsword?
I was going to suggest that, but the difference ends up being +1 Fort save for taking the 10th level of eldritch knight vs. +1 HP on average for taking the 5th level of spellsword.  Plus I doubt the next 5% ignore ASF at 5th level will help much either.  By 3rd level spellsword, he can already ignore 15% and cast in mithril breats plate.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

kurashu

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2008, 03:28:33 PM »
Everyone forgot an important part of abjurant champion: the HP. It hands out a d10 instead of a d6 like EK or a d8 like Spellsword or Sacred Exorcist.

Anyways. If you're going to be an elf wizard, you may as well take the elf paragon class.

Fighter 1/Wizard 2/Elf Paragon 3/Spellsword et. al.

Fighter 1/Wizard 2/Paragon 3 gives you 4 caster levels, +5 BAB, 1d10+2d4+3d8 HP and boosts your reflex save some and your intelligence by 2.

Also, if you're going to be an elf wizard, no point in not being a generalist? Or if you specialize, no point in not focusing (especially if you're a diviner; especially if you will be using arcane strike).

Ubernoob

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2008, 03:32:56 PM »
Why take the 10th level of Eldritch Knight instead of the 5th level of Spellsword?

Also, here is an old thread on building spellswords specifically for using Channel Spell. I think the best was probably DaveTheMagicWeasel's suggestion:

Bard 4 / Fighter 1 / Spellsword 5 / Sublime Chord 2 / Sacred Exorcist 8

That gets you BAB +16, 9th level spells, channel spell and turn undead (use it for Divine Might, DMM only really works if you can take Southern Magician).
Aye, but you don't actually get spells to channel until character level 11.  Completely non-viable as a caster until level 11.  Now, considering that we are starting at level 3...

People, when will you learn to quit focusing on level 20?  Focus on the level the OP is playing at.  Y'know what?  Fuck it.  Let me do it for y'all.

Assuming core+CW+SRD
At level 3:
Fire Elf (UA) Combat Wizard 3
1) Combat Expertise
Wiz) Improved Trip
3) Improved init

Run around with a spike chain.  Trip people.  The prone penalty cancels out the nonproficient penalty.  Since duelist style characters don't wear armor or shields you can just flavor the two handed chain as a rapier.  If you want to go for overkill, then cast enlarge person and take EWP or power attack as your third feat to be more effective.  The big thing though is that you don't wear armor.  Get a rat familiar so you can have a better fort save.

@Kurashu: HD is meaningless for wizards.  It really is.  We're not ignoring it, but simply that 15 extra hp over 5 levels isn't worth mentioning.
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Rebel7284

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2008, 03:55:13 PM »
Ubernoob: Abjurant Champion also provides non-trivial class features.  Quickened Dispel Magic is amazing at mid levels.  Overrated is subjective anyways.  I think you will agree that it's within the top 2-3 gish PrCs?   

To Original Poster: if you want to focus on channeling, you can combine Spellsword with Smiting Spell and Bloodstone/Spell storing weapon for some very sexy hits. :)
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carnivore

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2008, 04:36:46 PM »
why not use a Battle Sorceror
[spoiler]Battle Sorcerer
 The battle sorcerer is no weak arcanist, hiding behind the fighters. Instead, she is a capable physical combatant who mixes magical prowess with fighting skill.

Hit Die
d8.

Base Attack Bonus
The battle sorcerer uses the base attack bonus progression of the cleric.
Class Skills
Remove Bluff from the battle sorcerer's class skill list. Add Intimidate to the battle sorcerer's class skill list.

CLASS FEATURES
The battle sorcerer has all the standard sorcerer class features, except as noted below.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
At 1st level, a battle sorcerer gains proficiency with any light or one-handed martial weapon of the character's choice. She also gains proficiency with light armor.

Spellcasting
A battle sorcerer can cast sorcerer spells derived from her class levels of battle sorcerer while in light armor without the normal arcane spell failure chance.
A battle sorcerer has fewer daily spell slots than a standard sorcerer. Subtract one spell per day from each spell level on Table: The Sorcerer (to a minimum of zero spells per day). For example, a 1st-level battle sorcerer may cast four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells per day (plus bonus spells, if any).

A battle sorcerer knows fewer spells per spell level than a standard sorcerer. Subtract one spell known from each spell level on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known (to a minimum of one spell per spell level). For example, a 4th-level battle sorcerer knows five 0-level spells, two 1st-level spells, and one 2nd-level spell. When she reaches 5th level, the battle sorcerer learns one additional 1st-level spell, but doesn't learn an additional 2nd-level spell (since two minus one is one).
[/spoiler]

Wild Elf(+2 Dex, -2 Int)(fav class: Sorceror)

Battle Sorceror 4/ Fighter 1/ Spellsword 6/ Knight Phantom 9

BAB +19
cast 8th lvl Spells

 :D

GawainBS

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2008, 04:39:04 PM »
why not use a Battle Sorceror
[spoiler]Battle Sorcerer
 The battle sorcerer is no weak arcanist, hiding behind the fighters. Instead, she is a capable physical combatant who mixes magical prowess with fighting skill.

Hit Die
d8.

Base Attack Bonus
The battle sorcerer uses the base attack bonus progression of the cleric.
Class Skills
Remove Bluff from the battle sorcerer's class skill list. Add Intimidate to the battle sorcerer's class skill list.

CLASS FEATURES
The battle sorcerer has all the standard sorcerer class features, except as noted below.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
At 1st level, a battle sorcerer gains proficiency with any light or one-handed martial weapon of the character's choice. She also gains proficiency with light armor.

Spellcasting
A battle sorcerer can cast sorcerer spells derived from her class levels of battle sorcerer while in light armor without the normal arcane spell failure chance.
A battle sorcerer has fewer daily spell slots than a standard sorcerer. Subtract one spell per day from each spell level on Table: The Sorcerer (to a minimum of zero spells per day). For example, a 1st-level battle sorcerer may cast four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells per day (plus bonus spells, if any).

A battle sorcerer knows fewer spells per spell level than a standard sorcerer. Subtract one spell known from each spell level on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known (to a minimum of one spell per spell level). For example, a 4th-level battle sorcerer knows five 0-level spells, two 1st-level spells, and one 2nd-level spell. When she reaches 5th level, the battle sorcerer learns one additional 1st-level spell, but doesn't learn an additional 2nd-level spell (since two minus one is one).
[/spoiler]

Wild Elf(+2 Dex, -2 Int)(fav class: Sorceror)

Battle Sorceror 4/ Fighter 1/ Spellsword 6/ Knight Phantom 9

BAB +19
cast 8th lvl Spells

 :D

Not enough spells known for a Gish, IMO.

carnivore

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2008, 04:45:18 PM »
doesnt really matter if all you plan to do is Channel them and use Arcane Strike

 :D

Ubernoob

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Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2008, 04:49:25 PM »
Ubernoob: Abjurant Champion also provides non-trivial class features.  Quickened Dispel Magic is amazing at mid levels.  Overrated is subjective anyways.  I think you will agree that it's within the top 2-3 gish PrCs?   
At character level 12 at earliest.  You hit the dispel magic cap two levels ago.  That's trivial.  The AC boost is nice, but the class features aren't worth keeping track of for the most part.
Quote
To Original Poster: if you want to focus on channeling, you can combine Spellsword with Smiting Spell and Bloodstone/Spell storing weapon for some very sexy hits. :)
That'd require a minimum of 5 CL loss or so.  Can we stomach that?  Is it worth 3 levels that basically don't contribute at all?

@Carnivore: That build is fucking terrible.  He doesn't get second level spells, he has fewer feats, and he has terrible spell selection.  That's at level 3.  And it gets worse as the build progresses.  Please, stop posting in threads that I've already got under control.  You just want people to suck and that's fucking mean to do to people.
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