Author Topic: Elf Spellsword  (Read 20264 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

j0lt

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
  • Browncoat
Elf Spellsword
« on: November 24, 2008, 05:49:07 AM »
Quick Character Background: Myrrath is the son of an Elven noble family with a long tradition of wizardry.  His parents had sent him to an expensive magic academy in the hopes that he would become an illusionist or diviner.  Myrrath, however, had inherited a rebellious streak from a grandparent and fully intended to become an adventuring warrior against his parents' wishes.  After spending a few years in the academy, the lure of adventure was too much, and Myrrath left with little more than the clothes on his back, and an Elven Courtblade he had inherited from his grandfather.  The campaign opening will involve him trying to find someone to train him in swordsmanship.

I'm more or less just using core and Complete Warrior, and the build starts as Wiz3.
Next he'll take 2 levels of Fighter, followed by one more level of Wizard to meet the qualifications for Spellsword.
The final build will be along the lines of Wizard 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword 4/Eldritch Knight 10.
I've designed him to focus around using both the Spellsword's channel spell and the feat Arcane Strike as his main offensive option, with ranged spells as a secondary attack option.  This attack will be available starting at level 10.  Most likely I'll channel Scorching Ray (4d6) and burn a 3rd level spell slot with Arcane Strike (+3 to attack & 3d4 damage) for a total of 1d10+str+4d6+3d4 on a non-crit.

He'll have 18 BAB at level 20, so ranged touch will be a breeze, as well as a base caster level of 15 (19 with Practiced Spellcaster) for access to level 8 spells.

Starting Ability Scores (32 point buy): 15 14 12 16 10 10

Feats:
1 - ?
3 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (elven courtblade)
4 - (fighter bonus feat) Improved Initiative
5 - (fighter bonus feat) Power Attack
6 - ?
8 - (spellsword bonus feat) Cleave
9 - Arcane Strike
11 - (eldritch knight bonus feat) Improved Critical (elven thinblade)
12 - Practiced Spellcaster
15 - Quicken Spell
18 - ?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 12:53:45 PM by j0lt »
PbP Games
The Artifact (prologue) as Dr. Henry Loder, Mayan archaeologist


katans

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
  • All hail the Cheese!
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2008, 06:22:54 AM »
- You might consider Extend Spell (good for buffs) and later on Quickened Spell.
- Weapon Focus and Combat Casting are wasted feats. They suck, and are not a prerequisite for any of your PrCs or other feats. Drop them.
- Are you really using nothing outside of Core and CW? I'm thinking of feats like Practised Spellcaster, Somatic Weaponry, Shield Ward etc.

j0lt

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
  • Browncoat
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2008, 06:29:01 AM »
I only took Weapon Focus as a bonus feat, I wouldn't spend a regular feat on something like that.

I'm not limited to core & CW, but those are the only two I've looked in so far.  Where can I find those other feats?
PbP Games
The Artifact (prologue) as Dr. Henry Loder, Mayan archaeologist


Callix

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 622
  • Not cool enough for a custom title.
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2008, 06:53:51 AM »
Practised Spellcaster - Complete Arcane
Shield Ward - Player's Handbook II
Somatic Weaponry I can't remember a source for, but it lets you make somatic components with your weapon, allowing you to cast without a free hand.
I know gameology-fu.

j0lt

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
  • Browncoat
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2008, 06:59:06 AM »
Awesome, thanks!
The Complete Series are no problem, but neither I, nor my DM has PHB2.  How good is that Shield Ward feat?
PbP Games
The Artifact (prologue) as Dr. Henry Loder, Mayan archaeologist


Callix

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 622
  • Not cool enough for a custom title.
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2008, 07:11:53 AM »
Awesome, thanks!
The Complete Series are no problem, but neither I, nor my DM has PHB2.  How good is that Shield Ward feat?
You can add your shield bonus to your touch AC. It's the feat that made Sword and Board into something you look at when you've got few other options. Works well with Animated/Improved Buckler Defense, too. In other words, if you can't get it, your shield is for Fortification/Death Ward et al, not for AC.
I know gameology-fu.

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2008, 07:13:56 AM »
If you have PHB2, though, you'll just play a duskblade. :p
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

katans

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
  • All hail the Cheese!
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2008, 07:23:34 AM »
But Duskblades don't get 8th level spells...

Somatic Weaponry is in Complete Mage. Speaking of which, if you have access to CM you should definitely consider Abjurant Champion, it's a better gish PrC than Eldritch Knight.

Regarding Weapon Focus and Combat Casting: you could at least swap them for something useful, like... dunno... Improved Initiative, or Blind-Fight. Both are fighter bonus feats.

If you end having more Dex than int (who knows...), playing an Uurkrau Illumian (Races of Destiny) will allow you to use Dex instead of Int to determine bonus spells.

Ubernoob

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2217
  • Happy Panda
    • Email
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2008, 07:30:23 AM »
Dex is easier to boost anyways.
Ubernoob is a happy panda.

j0lt

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
  • Browncoat
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2008, 07:45:30 AM »
If you have PHB2, though, you'll just play a duskblade. :p

But Duskblades don't get 8th level spells...
And I wanted the class build to fit in with the character concept.  Playing a Duskblade pretty much circumvents all that.
Quote
Somatic Weaponry is in Complete Mage. Speaking of which, if you have access to CM you should definitely consider Abjurant Champion, it's a better gish PrC than Eldritch Knight.

Regarding Weapon Focus and Combat Casting: you could at least swap them for something useful, like... dunno... Improved Initiative, or Blind-Fight. Both are fighter bonus feats.

If you end having more Dex than int (who knows...), playing an Uurkrau Illumian (Races of Destiny) will allow you to use Dex instead of Int to determine bonus spells.

I have Complete Arcane, but not Complete Mage...  Eldritch Knight more or less just gives me full BAB and 9/10 caster level and a single bonus feat.  Not much aside from basic gish.  What would Abjurant Champ give me?
Improved Init is one that I was thinking about, but I've never really had to use Blind-Fight...

Aside from feats, are there any really big flaws with the class build?  I know I won't have enough HP to go toe-to-toe with most enemies, but my plan is to stay out of direct combat and blast mooks with rays and AoE spells, while saving my stabby-spell for the boss.  (at which time I'll probably go invisible just to get in close without worrying about AoO, etc...)

Also looking at getting the Spell Storing enchantment on the rapier at the earliest opportunity.
PbP Games
The Artifact (prologue) as Dr. Henry Loder, Mayan archaeologist


Callix

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 622
  • Not cool enough for a custom title.
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2008, 07:55:31 AM »
Abjurant Champion: 5 levels, full BAB, full casting. Free Extend for abjurations, free Quicken for low-level abjurations, +5 extra Armor or Shield bonus to AC when you use an abjuration spell for that bonus (Note: Mage Armor is not an Abjuration Spell.), the ability to expend spell slots for small bonuses as a swift action, and sets your caster level for one arcane casting class to your BAB. Requires one feat (Combat Casting). The rest is automatic in any gish build, and could be met by an Elf Wizard 10 if they really wanted to. One of those "why not" classes for gish builds.
I know gameology-fu.

GawainBS

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1474
    • Email
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2008, 08:53:54 AM »
You sure about being DEX based? STR gives a lot more damage, and (especially with Abjurant Champion), you have the Shield spell for the shield AC. RAW, I believe, you could use the Shield spell for Shield Ward. (Isn't Shield the equivalent of a tower shield? Or am I still thinking 3.0 on that?)
Even if you really, really wanted to stay DEX based, at least got for an Elven Courtblade: Finessable, and twohanded for Power Attack & Wraithstrike Galore.
I really, really, don't see the point of going finesse. My first gish was that way, and he was seriously underpowered.
Also, drop Combat Expertise, unless as a prerequisite for Improved Trip.

j0lt

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
  • Browncoat
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2008, 09:08:47 AM »
Abjurant Champion: 5 levels, full BAB, full casting. Free Extend for abjurations, free Quicken for low-level abjurations, +5 extra Armor or Shield bonus to AC when you use an abjuration spell for that bonus (Note: Mage Armor is not an Abjuration Spell.), the ability to expend spell slots for small bonuses as a swift action, and sets your caster level for one arcane casting class to your BAB. Requires one feat (Combat Casting). The rest is automatic in any gish build, and could be met by an Elf Wizard 10 if they really wanted to. One of those "why not" classes for gish builds.

Damn, that is good!  I may have to convince my DM to split the cost of ordering that one off Amazon!  :p

You sure about being DEX based? STR gives a lot more damage, and (especially with Abjurant Champion), you have the Shield spell for the shield AC. RAW, I believe, you could use the Shield spell for Shield Ward. (Isn't Shield the equivalent of a tower shield? Or am I still thinking 3.0 on that?)
Even if you really, really wanted to stay DEX based, at least got for an Elven Courtblade: Finessable, and twohanded for Power Attack & Wraithstrike Galore.
I really, really, don't see the point of going finesse. My first gish was that way, and he was seriously underpowered.
Also, drop Combat Expertise, unless as a prerequisite for Improved Trip.
I went with Dex to fit the concept, Elves being graceful and all that.  Plus the fact that she won't be wearing any armor until level 7 means low AC without the Dex.  I suppose I could drop the Dex to 12 and put up 14 Str, but it doesn't really suit the character concept (this is more or less a rebuild of a character I played up to level 16 a few years ago).  I would have an extra 2 damage on each attack though...  Have to think that one over.
PbP Games
The Artifact (prologue) as Dr. Henry Loder, Mayan archaeologist


Ubernoob

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2217
  • Happy Panda
    • Email
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2008, 09:15:03 AM »
Don't fall for that abjurant champion crap.  It's over rated.  CM is a decent complete, but you're better off downloading it than paying.

On the free front, have you considered swiftblade?
Ubernoob is a happy panda.

j0lt

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
  • Browncoat
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2008, 10:51:12 AM »
Okay, I've gone and done a bit of changing.  I'll have to see if I can find CM in the local gaming store to read up on that Somatic Weapon feat.

Any more feat suggestions?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 11:36:33 AM by j0lt »
PbP Games
The Artifact (prologue) as Dr. Henry Loder, Mayan archaeologist


RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2008, 11:48:48 AM »
If your DM is willing, or you can find a nice used copy, I'd suggest getting Complete Mage.  If you do go that route, you could do something like:

Wizard 6/Fighter 1/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 7

It's not an awesome build, but you'd end up with BAB +17, 18th level caster level, all those Abjurant Champion goodies Callix mentioned, and the ability to ignore 10% arcane spell failure (letting you cast in a mithril shirt with no problem).

If you go that route you do need to pick up Combat Casting for Abjurant Champion.  It kind of sucks, but I think the PrC is worth it.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

katans

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
  • All hail the Cheese!
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2008, 12:04:15 PM »
Don't fall for that abjurant champion crap.  It's over rated. 

No, it is just what it is: a decent PrC if you intend to build a gish. Better than using the subpar options of going spellsword or EK all the way.

Negative Zero

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1532
    • Email
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2008, 12:28:28 PM »

j0lt

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
  • Browncoat
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2008, 12:43:44 PM »
If your DM is willing, or you can find a nice used copy, I'd suggest getting Complete Mage.  If you do go that route, you could do something like:

Wizard 6/Fighter 1/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 7

It's not an awesome build, but you'd end up with BAB +17, 18th level caster level, all those Abjurant Champion goodies Callix mentioned, and the ability to ignore 10% arcane spell failure (letting you cast in a mithril shirt with no problem).

The main problem with this build is that it completely misses out on the main reason for taking Spellsword: channeling spells!

I'm actually considering whether it would be worth it to take another level of Spellsword (up to 5 instead of 4) and then getting a suit of Elven Chain.  It's only a single point of AC, and is much heavier than Mithral Shirt, but I don't lose out on any BAB or caster levels by doing so.  The only real difference is my Fort Save would be one point lower, and I'd have to wait one extra level to grab Improved Crit...
PbP Games
The Artifact (prologue) as Dr. Henry Loder, Mayan archaeologist


ChristopherGroves

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
Re: Elf Spellsword
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2008, 01:05:54 PM »
The nice thing about Spellsword is that you can channel more than just touch spells (Duskblade's restriction is just touch spells).  The bad thing about Spellsword is that it is limited in times/day and you're going to be losing caster levels.


You could consider ...

Duskblade 3 / Wizard 3 / Ultimate Magus 10 / Wizard advancing class 4 ****

*** some combination of Wizard, Master Specialist, Spellsword 1, Ajburant Champion, etc.

Or more simply ...

Duskblade 3 / Wizard and full-wizard advancing classes 17

Just something you might consider.