Author Topic: The sorcererous knight  (Read 2466 times)

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Alastar

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The sorcererous knight
« on: November 10, 2008, 08:45:09 PM »
So yeah, a friend of mine who sucks at building characters asked me to make him something:

A build that merges the paladin's prowess with a sword (and incredible charisma related skills), to the sorcerer's spell power.

Now i kinda know where to start, more or less, but i was wondering if you guys could help me, since i know preciously little about sorcerer's and paladins.  Or any attempts to mix the two.

The point here is to make a sorcerous gish with a heavy dependence on charisma.  While losing as little caster levels as possible.

I was thinking either:

Paladin 2/sorcerer 6/Abjurant champion 5/ spellsword 1/anything else 6

Or

Monk 1/sorcerer 6/ i don't know what to do when I'm there

all books allowed

90 points stat dispersion (everything starts at 0, it costs 1 to augment any stat, up to 18 maximum in one attribute)

Flaws allowed

The character has to be a dream dwarf... yeah, it's silly....


So yeah, hope you guys can help, cause this is a weak part of my optimisation fu.

Callix

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Re: The sorcererous knight
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2008, 08:50:30 PM »
Pal 2/Sorc x/gish PrCs is the usual way. Anythign with full BAB and 10/10 casting advancement. You want 9th-level spells.

Another, weirder option is Sorceror 4/Crusader 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Jade Phoenix Mage 10. You lose 9th-level spells, but get 8th-level spells and maneuvers with a BAB of 18.
I know gameology-fu.

woodenbandman

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Re: The sorcererous knight
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2008, 09:19:13 PM »
Crusaders, Paladins, Clerics are all a good way to go. Consider also using Bard as a base and going Paladin of Freedom2/Bard/Sublime Chord/Eldritch Knight. The thing here is that you get fewer 9th level spells, but you can afford to lose more caster levels, and sink then into, say, Crusader/Jade Phoenix Mage. In total you can afford to lose 9 caster levels while still retaining your 9th level spells, but that's generally not necessary or a good idea.

dobu

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Re: The sorcererous knight
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2008, 09:33:53 PM »
hm. what about
Paladin 5/Knight of the Weave 5/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 2/Abjurant Champion 5/Spellsword 1/Virtuoso +1

you would need either Ruby Rose Knight or Harmonius Knight subistution level to get perform as a class skill and this build is a little skill tight :)

this build has BAB16 and 9th level Arcane spells (spont and CHA based), it even has bardic music :D

ninjarabbit

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Re: The sorcererous knight
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2008, 11:19:21 PM »
The standard pally gish is paladin2/sorcerer4/spellsword1/abjurantchampion5/sacredexorcist8. 16 BAB, 18 Cl for 9th level spells, and turn undead to fuel divine feats like divine might.

Note that spellsword has all knowledge skills as class skills so you can meet maximum rank requirement the knowledge (the planes) requirement.

Alastar

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Re: The sorcererous knight
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2008, 12:00:16 AM »
Hmmmm as for feats, what feats should I take.

Snowflake Wardance?  Can I?

What else?

I'll go check sacred Exorcist

skydragonknight

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Re: The sorcererous knight
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2008, 12:11:27 AM »
Hmmmm as for feats, what feats should I take.

Snowflake Wardance?  Can I?

Anything that has bardic music wants either that feat or Dragonfire Inspiration. Given your Charismawesomness and distinct lack of a dragonblood subtype, Snowflake Wardance would be the feat for you.

Edit: Non-bards/SCs can use Whirling Blade/Thunderlance to use Cha for attack/damage, so no worries.
Note that you can use Thunderlance in one hand, and it has a 20 ft reach with 3d6 base damage(not slashing, so no snowflake wardance, but it IS force damage, so no DR :D). And it's 4th level, so Circlet of Rapid Casting still works.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 12:23:09 AM by skydragonknight »
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ChristopherGroves

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Re: The sorcererous knight
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2008, 12:19:58 AM »
Once you get Turn Undead (from Sacred Exorcist) consider this ...

(1) burn a feat on Travel Devotion (complete champion) and sacrifice a few more turn attempts to let you do this multiple times/day.

This nets you the ability to move as a swift action ... and thus kinda sorta pounce.  The nifty thing is if you've moved 10 feet then ...

(2) And you're wearing Slippers of Battledancing from the DMG 2 ... you use your CHA instead of STR or DEX for to hit and damage with one handed weapons.

Slippers of Battledancing + Travel Devotion + Snowflake Wardance = full attack w/ 2x CHA to hit and 1x CHA to damage, both of which are keyed off of perform(dance).

ninjarabbit

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Re: The sorcererous knight
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2008, 12:41:25 AM »
Another build is paladin2/sorcerer4/spellsword1/abjurantchampion1/swiftblade10/abjurantchampion2

Yeah you lose more caster levels but you get swift haste, your cha modifier to your initative, and eventually time stop as a free action among many other things.

RobbyPants

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Re: The sorcererous knight
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2008, 04:46:23 PM »
The standard pally gish is paladin2/sorcerer4/spellsword1/abjurantchampion5/sacredexorcist8. 16 BAB, 18 Cl for 9th level spells, and turn undead to fuel divine feats like divine might.
This is the build I would have suggested.


The character has to be a dream dwarf... yeah, it's silly....
At first I was going to complain about being a dwarf with two Cha-based classes, then I noticed you said dream dwarf.  That's a lot easier of a pill to swallow.


90 points stat dispersion (everything starts at 0, it costs 1 to augment any stat, up to 18 maximum in one attribute)
Well, 90 points in 6 scores would average out to 15 each, so my first thought is 12, 12, 12, 18, 18, 18.  I'd probably do something along the lines of (before racial mods):

Str: 18
Dex: 12
Con: 18
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha: 18

Although, you'll be in light enough armor that a better Dex would be nice (plus you're going to take a hit with the race), and Int and Wis aren't too important.  Dropping Int to 10 costs you a skill, and you need to keep Spellcraft and Concentration maxed, so you might not want to do this.  Wis can easily drop to 10, and maybe even 8.  So you might want to go more like:

Str: 18
Dex: 16 (14)
Con: 18 (20)
Int: 12
Wis: 8
Cha: 18

_______

I'd suggest using a good two-handed weapon (probably the greatsword, although the greataxe has nice dwarven flavor).  Power Attack will be very useful for you.  It will be even more useful if you take the spell Wraithstrike.

The Shield spell will be helpful at lower levels, and it works great with Abjurant Champion.  Just remember to get some way to apply metamagic feats to your sorcerer spells without increasing their casting time.  This will allow you to take advantage of the Abjurant Champion's ability to quicken spells like Shield.  Two ways to do this are to give up your familiar and take the ACF in the PHB2 (usable a few times per day based on your Int mod) or to take the Arcane Preperation feat. 
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