Wanting an effective Soulbow.

[Nanshork]

I made a soulbow cohort for Sinfire's Skies of Arcadia game, but that went down the drain.  But it got me wondering how to make an effective soulbow build without using gestalt-ish rules (which his game did). 

Best I can come up with is something like Soulknife 3/ Ranger 3/ Soulbow 1/ Shiba Protector 1/ Kensai 10/ Monk 1/ something 1 (not in that order).
Take Zen Archery and you've got: wis to damage twice, wis to hit twice, and wis to AC. 

But then your BAB sucks.  But Kensai lets your mind arrows get the splitting property, so that helps make up for it.  Is there any way to do this better?

[Shadowhunter]

Make it an Halfling and ad Yondalla's Sense (Feat).
Wis to Intiative is groovy.

Why the 3 levels of Ranger?
Is it for Shiba Protector (which is a PrC I'm not familiar with, I don't know what it does).

[Nanshork]

3 levels of ranger are because Kensai and Shiba Protector need BAB+5.

Shiba Protector is in Oriental Adventures, requires you to be a human, and gives wis to attack and damage.

[InnaBinder]

I can't say whether this is more or less powerful than your build, Nanshork, as I'm only vaguely familiar with Shiba Protector, but I had some success with Soulknife 3/Ranger 2/Illumine Soul 3/Soulbow 7/Cleric 5 (not in order).  DMM and Zen Archery, self-buffing, very easy on the MAD (start at Ranger 1 and you can dump STR and INT; ranged focus means you can keep CON a mite lower than you would otherwise).  Use an Elf for the domains.

[Cyrocloud]

Is kensai 10 really needed, I don't think you really need more than 3 or 4 levels to pick up splitting after that I can't think of any huge benifit for the next 6 levels of the class, warmind, or illume soul might be some good option to replace those levels and to pick up some manifesting or abilities.  Is SiFir allowing variant soulknife classes to be used?

[Nanshork]

Hmmm, not too shabby Binder, though I'd probably take the cleric out and replace it with Kensai 3 (for splitting mind arrows), Shiba Protector 1, something 1.  3rd level spells just don't seem like mind IMHO.


Cyro, Kensai 10 isn't needed at all.  And SiFir's game fell apart, this is now theoretical for me to use in some game in the future.

[carnivore]

try this:

Human

Ranger 3/ Fighter 4/ Soulknife 4/ Soulbow 8/ Shiba protector 1

this will give enough Feats to be an Excellent Archer and have +16 BAB and No Xp Penalty(no matter what Race you use) ...... on top of that it will have great Saves and Skills.... and will be based mostly on Wis:

Wis to Att x2(Zen Archery + Shiba protector)
Wis to Damage x2(Soulbow+ Shiba Protector)
Wis to AC(monk Belt)

wont even need to have Splitting.... since you can get Phase Shot(This ability negates cover, concealment, and even armor modifiers, but otherwise the attack is rolled normally.) + Greater Psionic Shot

 

[Nanshork]

While all those feats are fairly blase to me, since I'm not doing precision damage there are only so many archery feats that I really need, the +16 BAB is very very nice.  Phase Shot + Greater Psionic Shot makes for a nice sniper build, I'll give you that! 

[GawainBS]

4d6 extra damage on one attack for expending your focus isn't that great, I think. Doesn't even compare to Splitting.

[Nanshork]

Sometime today I'll take all of these ideas and try to come up with a build. 

[skydragonknight]

Maybe pile on as much non-precision damage as possible and use Manyshot+Fellshot(touch attack so they'll all hit) as your SA and refocus as your move action(if you take psionic meditation).

And don't forget about Mind Blade Gauntlets. I don't know an DM that wouldn't allow a variation that worked with Mind Arrows, as the the mind blade enhancement class feature and mind arrow enhancement class feature are almost identical mechanically.

Just a thought.

[Nanshork]

That's....not a bad idea.  That would make for a good sniper build.  I'm not really familiar with psionics, any feats allow your psionic focus to power more than one feat at a time?

Hmm, I've got more to think about now.

As for mind blade gauntlets, I wonder if you could add the Shadow Striking ability with them.

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

Mind Blade Gaunlets should work to boost the Mind Arrow, because they are one and the same. My basis for this is that the table for enhancement options includes the "Returning" ability, which would be completely useless to a Soulbow using a Mind Arrow. But if it enhances retroactively to the Mind Blade, it could have some use (sort of), thusly Mind Blade bonuses would work towards the Mind Arrow, just as Mind Arrow enhancements work for the Mind Blade. The numeric enhancement bonuses stack with Mind Blade, as well as feats for the Mind Blade, it's only logical.

[Nanshork]

After looking through everything, I'm thinking something along the lines of Soulknife 3/ Ranger 2/ Soulbow 4/ Kensai 3/ Shiba Protector 1/ Illumine Soul 3/ xxx 4.  Maybe more Soulbow.
Ranger for BAB bonus, Soulbow 4 gives Close Combat Shot, Kensai 3 gets splitting.
Gets Wis x2 to attack and damage.  Monk's belt gives wis to AC.  Mind Blade Gauntlets of course, and I like the manyshot/fell shot combo.

I'll get the build more fleshed out this weekend when I've got time.

[carnivore]

heres my build .... with some details added:

Human

Ranger 3/ Fighter 4/ Soulknife 4/ Soulbow 8/ Shiba protector 1

use Trapfinding Variant Ranger
use Bonus feats Variant Soulknife

Attributes (32pt buy)
10 Str
14 Dex
14 Con
14 Int
16 Wis
10 Cha

@2th lvl:

16 Str(10 +6 Belt)
24 Dex(14 +4 inherent +6 Belt)
20 Con(14 +6 Belt)
20 Int(14 +6 Belt)
32 Wis(16 +5 lvl +5 Inherent +6 Belt)
16 Cha(10 +6 Belt)


Flaws:
Noncombatant
Vulnerable


Ranger 1 ..................... Improved initiative, Knowledge Devotion(Flaw bonus), Point blank Shot(Flaw bonus), Education(Human bonus)
Ranger 2 ..................... Rapid Shot(Ranger bonus)
Soulknife 1 .................. Precise Shot, Wild Talent(Soulknife Bonus), Weapon Focus(Mindblade)(Soulknife bonus)
Soulknife 2
Fighter 1 ..................... Combat Expertise(Fighter bonus)......req for Shiba Protector
Soulbow 1 ................... Psicrystal Affinity(gives Alertness... req for Shiba protector),Zen Archery(Soulbow bonus)
Soulbow 2
Fighter 2 ..................... Manyshot(Fighter bonus)
Fighter 3 ..................... Dark Stalker or Skewer Foe or Able Sniper
Fighter 4 ..................... Weapon Specialization(mindblade)(Fighter bonus)
Soulknife 3 .................. Practiced Mindblade(Soulknife Bonus)
Soulbow 3 ................... Ranged Weapon Mastery, Penetrating Shot(Soulbow bonus)
Soulbow 4
Shiba protector 1
Soulknife 4 ................. Quick Reconoiter
Soulbow 5 .................. Improved Rapid Shot(Soulbow bonus)
Soulbow 6
Soulbow 7 .................. Woodland Archer , Improved Precise Shot(Soulbow bonus)
Soulbow 8
Ranger 3 .................... Endurance(Ranger bonus)


Items:
3000gp Iron Will from Location: Otyugh Hole......req for Shiba Protector
213000gp +6 Monks Belt of Magnifiscense
247500gp +5 tome and +4 tome
helm of Hunter(gives Farshot)
+3 Mindblade Gauntlet(Splitting) or (Force +2)

Attack abilities:

BAB +16 +22 Wis +3 Enhancement + 1 Weapon Focus + 2 Ranged Weapon Mastery +5 Insight= +49

Full Attack with Rapid Shot and Haste(Boots of Speed):

+49/+49/+49/+49(weapon supremacy)/+39/+34

with Splitting Gauntlet:
+49/+49/+49/+49/+49/+49/+49/+49/+39/+39/+34/+34

Damage:

1d8 mindarrow(ave 4.5) +22 Wis +3 Enhancement + 4 Ranged weapon Mastery+Weapon Specialize +5 Insight = 38 damage per shot

makes a Great Scout.... good skills , also can be a Good Sniper(195 range Increment, 1950ft max range.....but can still spot at that distance)

for better range ... do this:

Ranger 2/ Fighter 4/ Soulknife 2/ Soulbow 8/ Shiba protector 1/ Cragtop Archer 3

[Nanshork]

Ahhh, alright.  That makes more sense, heh.  This weekend I'll take a look at some of the things you've got, I might tweak it some but it actually looks very nice.

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

[carnivore]

nice build emaNsdrawkcaB  .... excellent use of resources, just a couple of questions:

1)im coming up with BAB +17, Monk, Soulknife, Soulbow all lose a BAB at 1st lvl

2)where is the  +22 Damage coming from, im seeing +11 Wis, where is the rest?

3)nevermind...forgot Woodland Archer Adds +4, Accurate adds +2

other than that .... nice work

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

Wow, thanks a lot. Sorry for the discrepancies:

1) I use fractional BAB, I forgot to mention that. It would be +17 BAB without fractional BAB.
2) I had swapped out GTWF before and had the Dead Eye Feat for DEX to damage, too. But the penalty from GTWF shouldn't be too bad as Woodland Archer and the Accurate enhancement keeps me from missing too much. But there is still the +5 to attack and damage from VoP and a +1 enhancement Bonus from Soulbow, making it +10 (WIS) +5 (Exalted Strike) + 1 (Enhancement Bonus) = + 16
3) Yup, I got this idea from one of your posts, ironically.

I edited the other post. Thanks again.

[Nanshork]

By the way, Carnivore, you forgot your normal first level feat.