The anyone's stealth character, because it amuses me.

[Sunic_Flames]

I was looking into further stealth based options for my Artificer and realized that I could become incredibly apt at it without ever investing a single rank into it.

Without even trying I came up with the following:

Superior Invisibility - Effectively +20 to Hide, and not easily foiled.

Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis - Dark template. Hide in Plain Sight, 8/6 (or was it 6/8?) Hide/Move Silently, various other benefits.

Those armor properties - +15 Hide and Move Silently.

Without any dex mod or ranks, we are now sitting at +41 or +43 Hide, and +21 or +23 Move Silently.

Add in skill enhancement for a CL / 2 + 2 circumstance bonus. At level 20 this is +12 with no CL boosting stuff.

Between that and distance penalties, not much can find you even if they have True Seeing (to penetrate and negate the Superior Invisibility) and even if they have highly honed senses (high ranks, high Wis). And you haven't even touched the skills. You also don't need Darkstalker as Superior Invisibility simply makes you immune to every I win button except True Seeing, Mindsight, and Lifesense. Also Touchsight for the psionics users.

Figure a more typical dex (say 18-20) and you can add 4-5 to all of the above.

I'm sure there are many improvements possible here. Am I missing something?

[ZeroSum]

Sculpt Sound or in some other way reduce Silence to a single 5' square to be really silent.

[Sunic_Flames]

Sculpt Sound or in some other way reduce Silence to a single 5' square to be really silent.

That would also screw with spellcasting, and taking Silent Spell defeats the purpose of this being something anyone (well anyone with UMD +19) can do.

I forget what the exact effect of that 'muffles sound' part of Superior Invisibility does.

[Shadeseraph]

Looks great. I, too, have been thinking that we have too many stackable items for those skills, but I never thought on trying to get the result. A caster can be a warrior with some spells, but anyone can be a rogue thanks to items xD.

I know, rogues aren't only stealth, but it was a fun thing to think. At least, it sounded fun in my head >.<

[Sunic_Flames]

Artificers also make better skill monkeys, particularly when it comes to obscure skills for much the same reason. Though you might need 1 rank to get around trained only requirements.

It works better in the game I intended it for as there there are certain house rules regarding skills, namely the fusing of similar skills. Ergo Hide + Move Silently becomes Stealth, and anything that gave a bonus to one now does to both.

That gives us +20 Stealth on Superior Invisibility, 8 from the Umbral Collar granted Dark template, 15 from an enhancement item, 12 from skill enchantment, and 4-5 dex for a total of 59-60. Assuming you have that Ioun Stone add another 1, Luck stone is another 1 and Artificers can easily afford to dip into the obscure bonus types since they can easily max the common ones. You could probably drop the armor property and still never be detected except by three fairly rare and obscure counters, one of which still has to find you normally as it does not reveal creatures that are simply hidden. You could possibly even drop the skill enhancement, but then you run a significant risk against most outsiders who tends towards True Seeing, and sharp senses. With only a +15 at most (+1 circumstance from Persisted Focusing chant, because why not?) you aren't so stellar at it anymore.

Of course, as the original post illustrated it still works fine in RAW environments, ensuring that the information is useful to others.

[Shadeseraph]

Artificers also make better skill monkeys, particularly when it comes to obscure skills for much the same reason. Though you might need 1 rank to get around trained only requirements.

Or a single feat! Advanced Thermophisics knowledge with Jack of all trades FTW.

[pfooti]

The Dark Template's Hide in Plain Sight isn't what you think it is, actually. It only allows you to hide without needing a distraction, it does not give you the chance to hide without concealment (as the Shadowdancer's HiPS does). So you still need some kind of concealment (shadows, etc), to make Hide work. A ring of the darkhidden, at 2,000 gp is always handy here - otherwise shadows don't help when the baddies have darkvision, and lots of baddies have darkvision.

[Sunic_Flames]

Well the idea here was something anyone could just invest in at any time, without changing their character any. Items qualify. Spells, particularly persisted spells qualify. Actual skill ranks, feat slots, etc do not.

With this method, you can turn even Captain Obvious the big clanking Fighter into a super sneaker simply by picking up a few nice things without making him any less of a Captain Obvious the big clanking Fighter.

After all, Superior Invisibility is personal or touch if I recall correctly so he need not activate/cast the thing himself.

And it doesn't? Really? I thought the point was to hide anywhere outside of broad daylight.

[AfterCrescent]

Deeper Darkness lasts day/level and provides concealment needed for the dark template.

[Sunic_Flames]

Deeper Darkness lasts day/level and provides concealment needed for the dark template.

Hmmm... and you could just put that in a pouch or something to block LoE when not needed can't you? Of course, a ball of darkness is obvious to anyone outside it and part of the goal here is to avoid giving your foe even an inkling of your location.

[pfooti]

And it doesn't? Really? I thought the point was to hide anywhere outside of broad daylight.

Nope, if you read the dark template description it reads like the Ranger's version of HiPS, rather than the shadowdancer's. Rangers get the "doesn't need cover to hide" part of the equation from Camouflage. In general, I find the stealth rules to be somewhat complex, but needlessly so: a few paragraphs about it would have cleared it up nicely, in either the PHB, DMG, or Rules Compendium.

[Sunic_Flames]

Hmmm...

Does this work?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blur.htm

And if so, means of getting it as a continuous effect?

[pfooti]

Deeper Darkness lasts day/level and provides concealment needed for the dark template.

Yeah, as long as the baddies don't have darkvision, or you have a ring of the darkhidden. The template doesn't require shadow per se, just concealment, which you can get from being in the dark, or behind a wall, or whatever. It's actually the same as a non-dark creature. What the template provides is a bonus to the Hide skill, and the ability to hide while someone is aware of you (normally you need them to be distracted, looking away, or you need to make a bluff check to fake them out). Dark also provides a bunch of other tasty stuff like +10 move and cold resist. In all, a collar is a pretty decent investment for many types of characters, not just hiders.

And strangely, Blur does grant the concealment that hiders require (although it's weird, I might not personally allow it as a DM). A Minor cloak of displacement 24,000 gp, DMG, provides continual blur.

[Magrus]

This would still be expensive though. It's not something you can drop pocket change on for a quick boost. It's a long term investment, even if you are crafting with an artificer. This would more something you would build a character around than something you would just go shopping for a 3-4 session adventure. Unless you were already near epic.

[Sunic_Flames]

Stealth boosting items = 67,500 gp. Subtract 1/3rd if you can get them in a affinity slot (not armor).
Collar = 22k, has other valid uses.
Minor cloak = 24k, has other uses.

Total = 113,500 gp. Not feasible until high levels. However...

Crafting is half cost. The craft cost reduction feats reduce this by 25%, or 37.5% total.

Now consider alignment restricted, class restricted, skill restricted per the DMG = -70% of that, or 11.25% total.

Result? 12,768.75 gp and 1,021.5 XP. I think I can live with that. Especially since miss chances and dark template benefits are useful anyways.

[RobbyPants]

An often overlooked way to move quietly is any form of flight.  Granted, you won't necessarily be silent, you won't have any footsteps.  Meerly being a few inches off the ground would drastically help reduce noice, while providing you all the other benifits of flight.

[Sunic_Flames]

An often overlooked way to move quietly is any form of flight.  Granted, you won't necessarily be silent, you won't have any footsteps.  Meerly being a few inches off the ground would drastically help reduce noice, while providing you all the other benifits of flight.

Yeah, was planning on Persisted Master Air for that. Gets around being exposed by the environment and such, at least to some extent.

[Squirrelloid]

It should be noted that invisibility gives full concealment if they can't see invisible, which will let you hide.  Since you're already using an invisibility effect anyway...

[Sunic_Flames]

While true, the reason why HiPS is included is so invisibility counters do not automatically foil it. They still have to see you, ergo a means of concealment not foiled by True Seeing is required.

Sadly, Blur does not qualify.

Here's a thought.

AMF + ESA + this = no counters?