Author Topic: Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?  (Read 3915 times)

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Prime32

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Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?
« on: May 20, 2008, 02:42:38 PM »
I was playing Fire Emblem a while back. Interesting story, but anyway, the only intelligent races in the world were humans (not counting a few members of a near-mythical dragon race).

Despite this, there were at least two characters who were dwarves by any other name. One was the stoic type, dressed in very heavy armour. The other was a frothing-at-the-mouth axeman who was the image of a battlerager. Oh, and both had beards. There were characters who could easily be elves or halflings as well.


It got me thinking - each of these characters had interesting personalities, but in a standard Tolkienian fantasy setting, assigned an appropriate race, they would be rather boring and cliche. Removing the standard fantasy races can make characters seem more alive, and allows people to enjoy a story who would otherwise be turned off by "those damn elves again".
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
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Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

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Re: Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2008, 02:46:14 PM »
So, you're saying they were statted up as humans, but made characters who otherwise seemed like dwarves?

This is a nice way to make flavor mutable, hopefully allowing everyone to win.  Plus, having a bonus feat, humans are versitile enough to allow a player to use the feat to "customize the race".
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[/spoiler]

Prime32

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Re: Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2008, 03:03:26 PM »
Plus, having a bonus feat, humans are versitile enough to allow a player to use the feat to "customize the race".
Do you mean something like this?

New Feat
Stout [Background]
Benefit: You gain +2 Con and -2 Cha. Your skill point at first level are reduced by four, and reduced by one at each additional level. In addition, you gain the stonecunning ability, etc.
Special: This feat may only be taken at first level.

New Trait
Stout
Benefit: You gain +2 Con, darkvision, the stonecunning ability, etc.
Drawback: You take a -2 penalty to Cha. You gain only one feat at first level (this does not include any feats you may receive as class features). Your skill point at first level are reduced by four, and reduced by one at each additional level.
Roleplaying Ideas: Characters with this trait might have a beard.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2008, 03:08:50 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Stratovarius

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Re: Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2008, 03:17:16 PM »
I think it was more along the lines of having the racial type be human, but having it RPed much like you would a Dwarf (or a miner from the north of England). So, rather than actually expending the feat to change racial characteristics, you just slant the PC in one direction or another without actually listing it as a different race.

And I'm sure that didn't capture it fully.
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RobbyPants

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Re: Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2008, 03:40:29 PM »
Do you mean something like this?

<snip>
Well, I was actually refering to the standard feats, but things like that could work pretty well too.  Hopefully players wouldn't feel like they're being pigeon-holed into a specific campaign setting.  They'd see all the new options available.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Sunic_Flames

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Re: Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2008, 03:42:45 PM »
Sounds like a clever workaround I employed to circumvent the suckiness that is half elves. I had one of my character's human parents die early and the other remarry an elf. Same raised by mixed background flavor, none of the borked mechanics. Win/win.

Though not necessary for dwarves for this purpose, it has definite practical uses for many other races.
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Tazendra

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Re: Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2008, 09:52:51 AM »
I did something similar. I had a character whose mother was human, and father was a half-orc.  I built her using human as the race, but played her as a half-orc.

RobbyPants

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Re: Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2008, 12:34:13 PM »
I've thought about useing that as a suggestion for half elves.  Mechanically, there's so little reason to play one.  Just make a human with slightly pointy ears who's not quite as tall.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Optimator

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Re: Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2008, 09:20:22 PM »
Isn't there a section in Unearthed Arcana about this very thing?

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Re: Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2008, 12:31:53 AM »
I take the stance that you can call your race whatever you want, so long as it's balanced. If you want to use the half-orc stats but say your character is human, go for it. If you want to take the halfling mechanics because your idea of an elf is so thin and slight they count as "small", why not? Some people find this bland and flavourless, which is a valid enough argument. I see it as being delightfully versatile and full of opportunity.

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Re: Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2008, 08:43:34 AM »
I take the stance that you can call your race whatever you want, so long as it's balanced. If you want to use the half-orc stats but say your character is human, go for it. If you want to take the halfling mechanics because your idea of an elf is so thin and slight they count as "small", why not? Some people find this bland and flavourless, which is a valid enough argument. I see it as being delightfully versatile and full of opportunity.

Hadn't actually considered doing something like that, but it seems fairly appropriate. In the past I have considered swapping bits and pieces around, subject to DM approval. So elves without sleep immunity but with the dwarven stonecunning, for example, because they live in high and rocky mountains. Or the "bonuses vs ancestral enemy", although I would always make those fairly specific. No bonuses vs undead, for one.
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Re: Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2008, 05:21:33 PM »
I tend to encourage races outside the PHB more than anything. Skarn, Warforged, Elans, Shifters, hell, even the Wild Elves in the MM. But I try not to deny my PCs their choices.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

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Re: Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2008, 06:48:24 AM »
If you plan on doing that without cutting too much options or forcing the players into having a feat, you can take a look at the Origins/Talents system in spycraft 2.0. Basically, they give ability modifiers and some tricks or bonuses wich substitute for the D&D races.

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Re: Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2008, 07:08:31 AM »
I did something similar. I had a character whose mother was human, and father was a half-orc.  I built her using human as the race, but played her as a half-orc.
Done this, sorta.  Except the father was the human, the mother was the half-orc, and I played him as a rampaging psychopath beyond the pale even for a half-orc.  (Cleric of death and destruction, vendetta against goddess of paladins, went out of his way to be CE and abhorrent just to piss off LG types and set himself opposite them.)  LE may be more effective, but there's something just plain fun about randomly killing the whole population of a desert town with your blasphemous undead minions, and then poisoning the only oasis in the area with their rotting corpses, on a whim.

Tangent aside, I think using human for the nuts and bolts and being something else in terms of fluff can work for some characters, but not so well for others.  Then again I also think being a human in fluff terms and something else in crunch can be good too (slain human brought back with magitech parts in place of ruined organs? Hello warforged).
« Last Edit: May 25, 2008, 07:13:27 AM by ShaggyShaggs »
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Re: Removing the standard fantasy races from D&D?
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2008, 05:27:39 AM »
If a member of the group is an egomanaical tree hugger with pointy ears that's been alive for 100+ years, I don't care what you stick in the "Race" block, "Favored Enemy" bonuses against Elves still apply.

In all seriousness, I don't find this to be original at all.  If you're using different mechanics for the same archetype then you're still playing the same, tired, old archetype.  Can it still be fun?  Sure.  It's just not special because Mechanics and Fluff really have little to no business interacting with each other.