Author Topic: Discussion on Gameology-fu **Now with shiny new Poll!**  (Read 28021 times)

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Shoggoth

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2008, 07:54:39 PM »
Also, while the name "Gameology-fu" does imply that the person is a "Brilliant Gameologist", and there is without a doubt a certain amount of "We're elite smarties who discuss gaming intellectually hur hur hur" (that's me, btw!), I think that the use of -fu as an aggregate value of friendliness/cleverness/intelligence/helpfulness/etc. is more valuable than some sort of character-like list of stats that we all carry around.  "Look at me, I have a +25 in witty but I'm dumb in theory so I have a -2 in Gameology!" is a bit much for what is really a community based message board, where a good 3rd of the board headings have nothing to do with gaming at all.

If that means that someone feels that they have a negative score from one aspect, but they want to be respected for some other aspect, well.....sorry.  
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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2008, 07:56:26 PM »

On a different tangent, how about two categories. A kudos/douchebag category and a gameology category.

Reason, Sunic, Uber and probably others often give "Plus fucking one" for well, cool posts. Something funny, well said or in line with their opinions is awesome, but not necessarily good or bad gameology.

Gameology would be new builds, helping n00bs with builds, general site improvement.

Thoughts?

My Plus Fucking Ones in that aspect go to someone either getting something gaming related right, or something about board policy right. I also don't give fu of any flavor that often. Positive fu is reserved for really good posts, negative for really bad posts.
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Elennsar

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2008, 07:59:24 PM »
Problem is that it means that it reflects a bunch of unrelated stuff under the same stat.

It makes figuring out 'what the hell does my gameology" (or "____'s gameology") reflect impossible.

Nothing wrong with "you're hillarious, kudos." points, but keept hem seperate from "wow. You know LOTS on economics. Kudos." points.

I'd go for the following, if "stat list" would be used (and I'm not proposing it, but some might like it)

Wit: As in, humor.
Charm: How likeable/dislike you are.
Lore: Gameology and stuff.

That covers the basic things we'd want to know, I think. As stated, I'm not proposing it as a replacement, but if we did have different numbers based on different areas, those areas seem to be ones BGers in general would want to rate people for. (I'd say we BGers, but I'd rather have just Lore rated and leave the other two alone.)
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ZeroSum

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2008, 08:03:35 PM »
We don't need an extensive list of possible attributes to give fu to. I'm rather certain that most people know that humor or other things not directly related to gaming, it's theory, rules, mechanics, etc. are not fu-worthy. However, perhaps you saw the Assplomancer and thought it was so fucking funny you couldn't resist +fu'ing it, even if there were (not that there are) mechanical problems with it.

I'll say it in the form of a question: Why is it not a good thing to say "this person is a good gameologist" if the person in question made a (presumably) game or gameology-related post that was exceptionally humorous, to the point where you believe it will encourage others to join or stay in this gameology-related community? (Please note and address specifically the point about how it's so good that it's going to make others want to be here.)

Midnight_v

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2008, 08:06:14 PM »
Does any one besides myself think fu works pretty much fine the way it is?

I think fu works fine the way it is. Any change would be simply extra, in my opinion and the net result would be that ultimately the fu would end up the same as it is now.
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Elennsar

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2008, 08:08:44 PM »
Here's my answer: A humorous, but not game or gameology related thing is not worth saying "great gameology" for, neither is a humorous but not very gameology savvy thing.

Setting up fu to reflect "great influence on the site" as opposed to "great gameology", and it would be exactly the kind of post that should be positive fu-ed.

But if you post something with bad gameology but a great joke, then the joke should not increase something measuring gameology and the gameology should not decrease something measuring humor.

Does that answer your question?

Note: I'm not suggesting an exhausive list. Just a "Do give fu for this. Don't give it for that." list of oh, ten things. We're smart. We can work from there. But unless there's a common baseline of what is and isn't fu worthy, how can you (the person who got fu-ed) tell if someone's "I gave you fu for ___." is valid within what fu is "supposed to measure"?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 08:10:32 PM by Elennsar »
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veekie

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2008, 08:14:48 PM »
Does any one besides myself think fu works pretty much fine the way it is?

I think fu works fine the way it is. Any change would be simply extra, in my opinion and the net result would be that ultimately the fu would end up the same as it is now.

Agreed, which is why I only suggested a change in fu display. Anything else ends up the same way anyway, since it's unenforceable or impractical to alter.
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Midnight_v

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2008, 08:17:03 PM »
Quote
Does that answer your question?
No.
My question was Does anyone besides myself else think fu works pretty much fine the way it is?

The appropriate answer to said question is.
"I do"

Or if you simply insist on contributing your 2cents even though the question clearly doesn't pertain to you..
I do not.
You're answer wasn't even really asked for, because well, you've expressed your opinion. ...
So you're just belaboring the point.
I was actually looking for "Dissenting" opinions from what you think.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So.....

Does any one besides myself think fu works pretty much fine the way it is?

I think fu works fine the way it is. Any change would be simply extra, in my opinion and the net result would be that ultimately the fu would end up the same as it is now.

 
Edit.
Thanks vekkie
We should just make a poll.... hmm...
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Shoggoth

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2008, 08:18:46 PM »
Does any one besides myself think fu works pretty much fine the way it is?

I think fu works fine the way it is. Any change would be simply extra, in my opinion and the net result would be that ultimately the fu would end up the same as it is now.

I agree.  I don't really see anything wrong with the system as it stands right now.

I would give you + -fu just to subvert what is apparently the system, but I can't yet!  Bummer.   :P
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Elennsar

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2008, 08:19:31 PM »
Midnight: I'm reasonably sure you have the ability to percieve that Zero asked a question that it would be an answer to.

I'm reasonably sure you're intelligent enough to figure out that means it wasn't to your question.

So. Why am I left wondering why you treated it as responding to your question when that was not the case?
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Midnight_v

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2008, 08:30:37 PM »
Midnight: I'm reasonably sure you have the ability to percieve that Zero asked a question that it would be an answer to.

I'm reasonably sure you're intelligent enough to figure out that means it wasn't to your question.

So. Why am I left wondering why you treated it as responding to your question when that was not the case?
I see...
There must have been some ninjaing involved there. I apologize that post was not there when I began or somehow I missed it.

What you said now has much more merit.
I humbly apologize.  :-[
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Elennsar

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2008, 08:34:19 PM »
'ccepted.

So, moving on. Some people agree with you, some don't. That indicates it is not working all that well.

Not total failure, but since we want as close to total success as possible, then we need to see if we can find that.
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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2008, 08:37:41 PM »

On a different tangent, how about two categories. A kudos/douchebag category and a gameology category.

Reason, Sunic, Uber and probably others often give "Plus fucking one" for well, cool posts. Something funny, well said or in line with their opinions is awesome, but not necessarily good or bad gameology.

Gameology would be new builds, helping n00bs with builds, general site improvement.

Thoughts?
I've never given +fu for anything except a really good post.  When I write "Plus fucking one" that's like a pat on the back.  I don't give fu with that.  I usually state when I give fu though.
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ZeroSum

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2008, 08:40:31 PM »
Midnight_v: I like G-fu as is though would prefer +/- as separate counters.

Elennsar: Let's try this, since you're fond of concreteness:
1. If someone brings to light a new way to positively use a mechanic that's definitely fu-worthy because it's promoting gameology through the direct creation of new theory.
2. If someone creates a handbook consolidating a large collection of good builds and work on a subject that's definitely fu-worthy because it's promoting gameology through bringing greater access to an aspect of gameology.
3. If someone disseminates their gaming sessions with a CO Diary then that's definitely fu-worthy because it's promoting gameology through researching the application of gameology theory.

4. If someone answers a question for help through expertly sifting through the existing work to give aid that's probably fu-worthy because it's helping others directly to spread positive gameology.
5. If someone finds a good addition to an otherwise good work that's probably fu-worthy because it's helping advance someone's work and theory though it's not their own creation.

6. If someone acts as a newb-herder, consistently, correctly, concisely and positively helping newbs get acquainted with gameology and headed towards the right threads and fora that's possibly fu-worthy because they're helping make the place better for new people.

7. If someone makes a post of such humorous, insightful or otherwise grand magnitude that it has the potential of drawing new people (through increasing general enjoyment of the place) that may be fu-worthy because it's helping grow the gameology community.

I'm not saying every good joke deserves +fu, just that, on occasion, it's a good thing to +fu those and in the end it'll work out about right.

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2008, 08:41:20 PM »
I've never given +fu for anything except a really good post.  When I write "Plus fucking one" that's like a pat on the back.  I don't give fu with that.  I usually state when I give fu though.
I think that clears up a bit of confusion some folks may have; one should probably not assume that a poster saying 'good job' or 'that's stupid' is changing fu unless the poster specifically says as much.  No good is likely to result from such assumptions.
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Midnight_v

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2008, 08:42:30 PM »
'ccepted.

So, moving on. Some people agree with you, some don't. That indicates it is not working all that well.

Not total failure, but since we want as close to total success as possible, then we need to see if we can find that.
As far as I can tell that 2 people who agree with me. It bears equal discussion. This might be appropriate access frankly and my point about it leveling out to what it is/was/should be.
I believe that
Won't matter the system. If you're a douche/give bad advice/ derail threads...
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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2008, 08:50:35 PM »
Remember, as currently defined, gameology-fu reflects both your gameology AND your contribution/influence to the message boards. So a joke that actually ends up keeping people on the site, or even recruiting people to the site is likely worth positive -fu.
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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2008, 08:52:05 PM »
I disagree with good jokes = fu unless its something you're willing to have mean every good joke gets fu.

Otherwise, the other six seem good.

AS for discussion: Agreed. My point is that if two agree, two disagree, and two would be open to changing it if it would result in the other four being pleased, then we need to see if we can find a better method.

After all, "I think it works fine now, yes." is not the same as "I think this is the best possible method." (though it may involve that, it is a different answer.)


One thing I'd like to do regarding douches/asses/bad advice/derailing: Make sure someone knows that and accepts that if you can convince them to stop before passing out bad fu. And make sure that you're clear on whether or not it is derailing the thread.

Some threads are more open to moving from the original post than others, so one needs to know these things. A general "Talk about multiclassing" and a specific "How to make multiclassing worth doing" thread are approaching things very differently.

As stated, I think the first six are good reasons to award fu. Behavior that increases the knowledge and understanding of gameology of those who come here (either as members or just observers).

So naturally, behavior that interfers with that is presumably a reason to award negative fu?

For instance, posting a stupid rule and insisting it is a brilliant rule and trying to get other people to use it is negative fu worthy.

Or a low score, or whatever.

But coming up with a bad idea in and of itself is not...after all, not all ideas here are perfect from first post.

AC: The only problem with that is that its very hard to tell when something "made someone stay" in terms of an individual post. Its usually "the kind of posts we see here make me want to stay/leave".
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ZeroSum

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2008, 08:57:40 PM »
I disagree with good jokes = fu unless its something you're willing to have mean every good joke gets fu.
That's why I said "may".

Let's say that the 1-3's get an 80% chance of getting +fu from the 20 people who commonly give fu.  On average those categories are likely to give +16 fu to the guy.

Let's say that the last one has a 5% chance of getting +fu from the 20 people who commonly give fu.  On average that example is likely to give +1 fu to the guy.

That's a good thing -- it's a randomized function and over large sample sets (like the hundreds or thousands of posts people rack up) they tend to work out correctly.

Elennsar

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Re: Discussion on Gameology-fu
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2008, 09:01:06 PM »
Assuming that it is watched to ensure that it really does mean that it happens 80% of the time or 20% or whatever percent, instead of insisting that's how it works...and then not keeping an eye on it to make sure it does.

That's the thing. If people feel that "I'll always give fu for this." then something has to compensate for the fact its not 5%...its whatever chance for the other 19 and 100% from Bob.

That won't naturally balance out.
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