Author Topic: Beguiler-based info specialist help, please  (Read 3095 times)

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ShaggyShaggs

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Beguiler-based info specialist help, please
« on: May 20, 2008, 01:52:50 AM »
I'm hoping to run a beguiler-based character in this game, and my opti-fu isn't especially strong but I'd really like not to drag the rest of the team down.  I was considering a beguiler/mage of the arcane order/unseen seer blend, but think maybe I can do better as an information collector.

I'd like some suggestions on advanced learning spells to pick up, please.  Feat revisions if necessary would be helpful too.  Or just tell me I'm crazy and should be doing this a totally different way, heh.

Beguiler 1   Extend Spell; Armored Mage, Trapfinding
Beguiler 2   Cloaked Casting +1 DC, Surprise Casting
Beguiler 3   Skill Focus: Knowledge (Religion); Advanced Learning: (?)
Beguiler 4   --
Beguiler 5   Silent Spell(b)
Mindbender 1   Mindsight; Telepathy 100'
Unseen Seer 1   Damage Bonus +1d6
Unseen Seer 2   Advanced Learning: Hunter's Eye
Unseen Seer 3   Rapid Metamagic; Divination Spell Power +1
Divine Oracle 1   Oracle Domain, Scry Bonus (+1 save DCs)
Divine Oracle 2   Prescient sense, trap sense +1
Divine Oracle 3   Quicken Spell; Divination enhancement
Unseen Seer 4   Damage Bonus +2d6[/b]
Unseen Seer 5   Advanced Learning: Vision, Guarded Mind
Unseen Seer 6   Practiced Spellcaster: Beguiler; Divination Spell Power +2
Unseen Seer 7   Damage Bonus +3d6
^^^EXPECTED CUTOFF LEVEL^^^
Unseen Seer 8   Advanced Learning: Greater Prying Eyes
Unseen Seer 9   Persistent Spell; Divination Spell Power +3
Unseen Seer 10   Damage Bonus +4d6
Loremaster 1   Secret: Applicable Knowledge: Chain Spell

« Last Edit: May 20, 2008, 03:46:07 AM by ShaggyShaggs »
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DavidWL

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Re: Beguiler-based info specialist help, please
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2008, 05:57:14 AM »
ShaggyShaggs,

Some thoughts:

1)  Your use of Divine Oracle is fantastic.  I haven't seen others suggest it, but it really is nice - adding a domain (because of the beguilers casting mechanic) is huge.  Also, the 2nd and 3rd level abilities are pretty cool!

2)  I don't see how unseen seer is that strong.  I doubt that you'll typically want to spend actions attacking (with a poor bab, and no no spells to take advantage of the extra D6s), so the "Hunter's Eye" spell and the damage bonus from unseen seer aren't that useful. 

Some alternatives to Unseen Seer:
- Shadowcraft Mage (always fantastic).  This assumes the DM is ok given the "gnome" requirement ... perhaps he'll waive it.
- Shadow Adept 1 - the feats are really quite useful

If you are willing to give up a caster level:
- Recaster (if the dm allows given the changeling pre-req)
- Ultimate Magus

The Conceal Spellcasting and Swift Concentration skill tricks are very worthwhile.

A few thoughts.

Best,
David
« Last Edit: May 20, 2008, 06:29:04 AM by DavidWL »
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ShaggyShaggs

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Re: Beguiler-based info specialist help, please
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2008, 07:07:42 AM »
Thanks for the suggestions.

I lack the dead-trees books for Shadowcraft Mage and Shadow Adept, and acquiring them in alternate mediums is proving difficult, but I'll keep trying.  I've heard amazing things about Shadowcraft Mage and I would like to try it out.  Race requirement could be an issue, but if I can acquire the source for the class, I'll inquire whether it can be waived.

Recaster I've seen and it is nice, though I'm loath to slow down my spell access by giving up levels.  Adding a couple more spells known does appeal to me a lot, but I don't know that it's worth giving up caster level and a bucket of skill points, particularly given that I'd not be gaining full benefit of that 4th level what with only knowing 1 metamagic feat on the given list and not really being interested in the others.  Then again, a lot of my skill checks can be boosted or obviated by my spells.... :plot  If the DM will waive the racial requirement, I'll consider it.

Maybe I'm dense but I'm not seeing a lot of benefit in Ultimate Magus (compared to the cost of lost levels) for a character like this, unless you're thinking use some shenanigans like taking the Arcane Preparation feat and using beguiler as both my arcane classes for UM.  Clue me in here?

You've got a point about the damage bonus from Unseen Seer and Hunter's Eye.  I had been intending to keep a couple wands of one of the lesser orbs handy and use that as a delivery system for sneak attacks when inflicting damage in combat was necessary, but it still may not be the greatest use of class levels.  The boosted caster level on divination interests me, and more so if I end up losing a level to recaster, but I could potentially go a different direction too.

I had been intending to make use of skill tricks, but figured I'd work out which of those to use later.  Thanks for the start on those. :)

This certainly bears some more thought...
« Last Edit: May 20, 2008, 07:11:54 AM by ShaggyShaggs »
"Your STFU N00b roll fails!"
"Crap. Can I make a saving LOL?"

"I think either we have unlimited rights, or we have no rights at all. Personally, I lean toward unlimited rights. I feel, for instance, I have the right to do anything I please; but, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. So where you gonna find a fairer fucking deal than that?" - George Carlin

Shadeseraph

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Re: Beguiler-based info specialist help, please
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2008, 02:25:58 PM »
Divine Oracle and Mindbender are perfect. Shadowcraft Mage is just too powerful for most of the campaigns I have played, but if your DM is alright with it, the class is great and fun. Another option I love is adding Anima Mage to the mix. Dantalion gives you a supernatural Read Thoughts at will, which looks like a great idea for an info specialist. Or you have extra versatility with the vestiges. And free metamagic three times per day is a great deal. You lose a CL, though.

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Re: Beguiler-based info specialist help, please
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2008, 05:13:17 PM »
Here's one for you're level 3 Advanced Learning: Insightful Feint (1st level, Sorc/Wiz).

For a first level spell slot, it duplicates the swift-action feint you get at high levels of Beguiler, except that you get a free +10 to the check.  Add another level of Beguiler and you get another bump on your Cloaked Casting, which ought to result in a +2 to all your spell DCs whenever you're casting a spell (woot +10 bonus to Bluff check for the feint!), and Mindbender ought to make that check absolutely absurd.
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ShaggyShaggs

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Re: Beguiler-based info specialist help, please
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2008, 06:01:34 PM »
I've not had an opportunity to acquire and study TM, but I can do a degree of thought reading with my spells, so that's not too great a loss.

Insightful Feint would be nice if I could pick it up as my first Beguiler advanced learning, but it's Divination rather than Illusion or Enchantment so that won't work.  Thanks for the suggestion though, looking for something similar I found Serene Visage which is an illusion and could serve a similar purpose in the long run and save actions at that.

Shadowcraft Mage and Recaster have been denied, that simplifies the selection process a bit.  Right now I'm tentatively thinking of going Beguiler 5/Mindbender 1/Shadow Adept 1/Divine Oracle 3/Unseen Seer X, possibly with 1 more Beguiler level thrown into the middle of the US levels to push the second Advanced Learning back from a 7th level spell to an 8th level spell.  Either way I'll be dropping Hunter's Eye from my advanced learnings, that wasn't a very good choice in hindsight.

I'd like to add either Prying Eyes or Greater Prying eyes to my spells known list via advanced learning.  I'm thinking either take Prying Eyes at level 12 and Vision at level 15, or take Analyze Dweomer at level 12 and Greater Prying Eyes at level 16.  I'm not sure which pair of spells would ultimately be better to add -- I'd really like my eyes to have true seeing, but I'm not thrilled about the long-ass casting time of Legend Lore from the Oracle domain.  Recommendations?
"Your STFU N00b roll fails!"
"Crap. Can I make a saving LOL?"

"I think either we have unlimited rights, or we have no rights at all. Personally, I lean toward unlimited rights. I feel, for instance, I have the right to do anything I please; but, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. So where you gonna find a fairer fucking deal than that?" - George Carlin

Akula

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Re: Beguiler-based info specialist help, please
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2008, 04:52:43 AM »
Two feats should be changed, since you haven't lost a caster level Practiced spellcaster isn't doing anything for you and you don't have the metamagic reductions nessecary to power persistent spell. The PrC's and feats are otherwise good though.