Author Topic: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers  (Read 23336 times)

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Josh

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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #60 on: November 02, 2008, 07:07:05 PM »
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To further clarify, the Surprise round made the Psychic Rogue nearly helpless with a severe drop in DEX score thanks to the poison.  It was predicated by two separate DC 20 Listen checks, difficult for the Paladin and something on the order of 70% probability for the PsyRogue, who failed both rolls - rolled by player not DM.  Paladin is fired at by one of the other Drow.  Miss.  End Surprise round.  Paladin's Initiative was low enough that the Drow went first in Round 1; none of the PCs up top made out the commotion down below.  Drow A shoots Paladin again, hit and rolled a 2 on Fort save.  DEX damage.  Drow B shoots at Paladin, miss.  Drow C attempts rapid career advancement and shoots Drow A.  Paladin's turn.  She could have signaled those above, and instead chose to jump off the rope and swing at Drow A.  Roll a 5, plus all bonuses, is still a miss. AoOs missed.  Round 2: Drow A stabs at Paladin while cursing out C loudly.  B stabs at Paladin again, who is reduced at this point to 0 DEX with a 3 on the Fort save.
Then they were carried off and the rest of the party did nothing?  Also by definition this was an overpowered encounter, such an easy TPK.  So when it is all said and done this is bad simply because it happened. 

Quote
Drow, for good or for ill, have certain baggage that comes with them, especially in Faerun, and especially (apparently) among those I game with.  Not all the Drow the PCs encounter are the sort that enjoy torture for torture's sake, but if I were not to include a torturer, or were to change the modus operandi of their torture to be more practical, those at my table would say (and have said in similar instances in the past) that I was not portraying the Drow according to canon; at best, this would encourage them to more thoroughly investigate the Drow presence here - away from the main adventure, and at worst my players would have less fun because I'd twisted a particular favorite monster into something that wasn't that monster anymore.  Stereotypes exist because at least a sizable minority of the group in question behave stereotypically.

So as already demonstrated Drow can be interesting antagonists. 

Listen to our upcoming episode “playing what you ain't” it is a player advice episode but it can apply to NPCs as well.
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InnaBinder

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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #61 on: November 02, 2008, 07:23:17 PM »
Then they were carried off and the rest of the party did nothing?  Also by definition this was an overpowered encounter, such an easy TPK.  So when it is all said and done this is bad simply because it happened. 
One of the remaining party members hauled up the Psychic Rogue, who recounted events.  They debated, briefly, taking stock of their current situation (4 encounters that day so far, Sorcerer down to the spells he had via magic item, Shugenja down to 3 spells, Psychic Rogue at 2 DEX, facing Drow in home environ) and elected to rest before proceeding with the rescue, which was where the session ended.  Had the Paladin been able to roll a 5 or higher on Fort saves, the Drow had no other special attacks to speak of; their HP were low enough that the Paladin had reasonable odds of dropping any of them with a single Smite and she had 3 of them left - used none.  It might still be considered overpowered, I suppose, but I had 3 of them there anticipating that the signal for help would be given.

So as already demonstrated Drow can be interesting antagonists. 

Listen to our upcoming episode “playing what you ain't” it is a player advice episode but it can apply to NPCs as well.
I look forward to it.  Thanks for all your input thus far.
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Irthos Levethix

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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #62 on: November 04, 2008, 06:50:07 PM »
I don't think the Drow would be able to rez the Paladin; at least in Core, the rez spells require that the soul be willing to return, and they know the alignment of the person casting the spell.  So, thats probably out. (Unless there's other spells in splat books that can forcibly return a soul to the mortal coil).

Fox's ideas are some of the best I've seen so far, tho.  The question I thought of though, is the player Lawful Stupid enough to try hacking her way out of the Underdark, rather than going all noble and taking her own life?

I think its pretty hard to make the player really feel the torture, though.  This basically happened to one of my characters, he was captured and tortured for several years, and as a player, I kinda felt "meh" about it.  It did give the character some interesting traits, though.  He wasn't the same after that.  But in a totally awesomely evil way.
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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #63 on: November 04, 2008, 10:17:29 PM »
The paladin's own written CoC expressly forbids suicide - originally included on the player's part to prevent having to fight overwhelming odds instead of retreating.  For that same reason, she's unlikely to attempt to fight to freedom (though stranger things have happened), as she's ill-equipped and ill-informed about the layout and defenses.  Understand, I, as DM, won't tell her not to do these things, but she and the player portraying her 'brother' both pointed out a belief that unassisted escape attempts were tantamount to suicide, therefore against the CoC.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 04:09:12 AM by InnaBinder »
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Irthos Levethix

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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2008, 11:34:02 PM »
So then through the player's way of portraying a Paladin, and kinda retarded moves in-game, she's basically going to be stoically enduring torture at the hands of the Drow.

Cool.

Howbout instead of torturing/mutilating/whatever the Pally herself, have some other captives of the Drow be tortured/mutilated/raped in front of the Pally, preferably weak/innocent creatures that the Pally would normally rush to defend.  Maybe do something like some sort of contraption where the Pally is forced to do a pointless, impossible task in order to save the victim, only to watch them die horribly.  That seems like some pretty harsh stuff, considering the CoC they have to live by.  Maybe rent those Saw movies, or that one about the guy killing people and putting it on the internet.  Probably some decent ideas for torturing people in there, and with the advent of magic into the mix, even more room for fuzzy little fairies to get horrible mangled in death. 

Hell, it wouldn't even have to be a "good" creature that was getting tortured, as the CoC says they have to defend anything incapable of defending itself.  Chinese water torture, except with acid, on a Troll, would be pretty fun to watch.  Drip.. Drip.... Drip...

I dunno, just something I thought of after I read your post.  Saves you from "damaging" the PC directly, and still provides loads of fun.  Even more twisted, cuz the Pally can't do anything to stop it.
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Irthos Levethix

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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #65 on: November 08, 2008, 08:52:02 PM »
So.... uhmm.... no updates on what you chose to do?  I, for one, would like to know how that scenario played out :D
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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #66 on: November 08, 2008, 10:02:32 PM »
So.... uhmm.... no updates on what you chose to do?  I, for one, would like to know how that scenario played out :D
Heh.  Game session was last night.  The remaining party members took advantage of one of their items, which allows them the benefits of 16 hours of sleep in only 4, to recuperate as quickly as possible as the paladin used passive resistance to delay her captors.  Refused to walk, dragged her heels in the ground, etc.  I decided to make the guards do subdual damage only to her, on the 'slavers have a potential buyer for the charismatic paladin' theory. 

One of the Drow took advantage of this resistance and the distractions it created to abscond with her after disabling his 'partner'.  As he was fleeing 'with her' - again, with her making it difficult but unable to STR check or Escape Artist from her bonds ("someone here has heavily invested in the Use Rope skill") with his former partner and allies tracking him down - the party swooped in to attempt the rescue.  Their path was legitimately one  which required that they get past the former partner and pursuers, 2 warblades a wizard and a cleric, level 5 with 2 4th level scrolls.  As they struggled and her captor fretted - as he'd gotten himself pursued to a cliff edge - the Paladin finally succeeded in a STR check and initiated a grapple that resulted in both going over the edge.  The Drow had a Ring of Featherfall, which saved both of them, though the Pally admitted to minor metagaming and gambling from my description that the fall would not be sufficient to kill her on average. 

As they drifted down, the other party members overcame one of the scrolled spells, but were caught in the center of a Vortex of Teeth.  Fighting their way out of that was a two round process that did significant HP damage to everyone but the crusader, who still took a beating.  The DMPC psyrogue - run in combat by a player at random - did not survive the Vortex.  At that point, the Drow cleric cast Charm Person on the sorcerer, who failed the save.  His instructions were to stop the others in his group from interfering in Drow business.  His interpretation of this involved tossing the Halfling party member over the cliff's edge - unseen by the crusader who was engaged against the enemy.  He then hit the crusader with a 30 point magic missile.  Dead crusader.  Halfling survived the fall with 3 HP to meet up with the paladin at the bottom of the cliff, and the sorcerer was given the instruction by the Drow to 'go tell others to leave this place alone'.  Time to hand out XP for the night.

The sorcerer was told it'd be a few days before the Charm wore off, at which point he was welcome to do whatever he wished, but asked if he could make a secondary character for the next little bit of the adventure, and is making another arcanist type.  The crusader's player has said he's making something to fill a skillmonkey slot, on the theory that the party is not currently in a good position to get him resurrected.  The party member to escape all of this with only subdual damage?  The paladin.   :lmao
« Last Edit: November 09, 2008, 04:44:03 PM by InnaBinder »
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Sunic_Flames

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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #67 on: November 08, 2008, 10:22:23 PM »
That's fucking Epic.
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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #68 on: November 19, 2008, 03:07:53 AM »
Drat, the whole thing ended before I got into the discussion!
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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2008, 03:15:52 AM »
I'm curious, now, Kuroimaken.  What are your insights?  Please, feel free to add to the discussion for future enlightenment.
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2008, 03:42:25 AM »
Well, I had this nice little bit to say about how torture is made less powerful due to the general lack of dread a Paladin would experience, by virtue of class features.

Paladins are immune to fear. The buildup from torture is often far more horrible than the torture itself. Pain, degradation, humiliation - that doesn't really get you farther beyond feeling dirty and perhaps a little sick to the stomach (which, again, doesn't happen because Paladins are immune to disease).

Knowing it's going to hurt - HORRIBLY, might I add - does NOT have that great an effect when you're not afraid of pain. Consider an ever-so-slowly approaching needle to your eye. You know that you can't move, or blink, or so much as turn your head the other way to avoid it. Your eye also cannot look any other way.

Consider that you stare at this needle for what seems like hours on end - whether or not hours have passed is immaterial. You KNOW it's getting closer. You KNOW what will happen as it pierces your eye.

Now consider the same situation, except that by divine intervention, you're exempt of fear.

How horrible does it look now?

By comparison, sexual torture is more about knowing how helpless you were when the whole thing happened. Victims of sexual torture often either steel themselves up to keep it from ever happening again, or break down and isolate themselves from the world, practically forever. Others shut the experience off completely.

When it comes to torture, the fear of never knowing what's next is way more horrible than what happens next. Trust me on that one.
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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #71 on: January 03, 2009, 08:13:44 PM »
Update:  because I'm sure everyone's overwhelmed with curiosity  :P.  TPK last night brought the campaign to a halt.  Oops.   :smirk
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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #72 on: January 05, 2009, 01:38:01 AM »
Update:  because I'm sure everyone's overwhelmed with curiosity  :P.  TPK last night brought the campaign to a halt.  Oops.   :smirk

:evillaugh

So what happened?
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Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

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InnaBinder

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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #73 on: January 05, 2009, 04:43:15 AM »
Quote
So what happened?
They were ill-equipped and - apparently - ill-suited to handle the juvenile green dragon that came upon them as they broke camp.  Its tactics were less than optimal, just 'breathe followed by bite on the first/worst to damage me', but the Druid & Shugenja were each taken out by Round 2 as the first to damage it with a summoned swarm and Searing Light wand, respectively.  The wand and swarm combined for 33 points damage through poor rolls.  Druid's Earth Elemental companion was never a factor.  Scout survived both breath attacks, only to become a tasty meat snack, as he was spec'ed as a thrower and couldn't gain enough distance after annoying the dragon for 16 points skirmish damage.  The remaining party members were a Crusader & Paladin, neither carrying a Ranged weapon and both reeling from 2 failed REF Saves.  They conceded that, as the dragon had Initiative and a Breath attack coming, they were dead.
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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #74 on: January 06, 2009, 08:12:45 PM »
Well, I had this nice little bit to say about how torture is made less powerful due to the general lack of dread a Paladin would experience, by virtue of class features.

Paladins are immune to fear. The buildup from torture is often far more horrible than the torture itself. Pain, degradation, humiliation - that doesn't really get you farther beyond feeling dirty and perhaps a little sick to the stomach (which, again, doesn't happen because Paladins are immune to disease).
Palladins are immune to the effects of fear. I'd say that doesn't mean they are never afraid. They just never give in to it.
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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #75 on: January 06, 2009, 09:32:37 PM »
Well, I had this nice little bit to say about how torture is made less powerful due to the general lack of dread a Paladin would experience, by virtue of class features.

Paladins are immune to fear. The buildup from torture is often far more horrible than the torture itself. Pain, degradation, humiliation - that doesn't really get you farther beyond feeling dirty and perhaps a little sick to the stomach (which, again, doesn't happen because Paladins are immune to disease).
Palladins are immune to the effects of fear. I'd say that doesn't mean they are never afraid. They just never give in to it.

The PHB isn't very clear on whether that's the case actually. Far as I'm aware, though? The definition of immunity means it never actually happens in the first place.
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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #76 on: January 10, 2009, 08:07:58 PM »
I had an encounter with drow in this campaign I'm in. I'm the binder. We had just run away from a huge army of undead, which were then headed to the drow city. We knocked on the door, and came in. We were sleep gassed, and everyone but the paladin failed their saves. Drow came in and tried to make him surrender, but his saves were too great, and he won in a war of attrition, while the drow passed out. He then proceeded to single-handedly carry all of us out, but he failed his final save, and stumbled out into a courtyard populated by a legion of drow, and fell down. We all fucking exploded in laughter.

We awoke in a cell. Naked. I used my ethereal walker ability from Chupoclops to walk through the bars, then I snuck out, and found the drow guardhouse. A loud bang came from the cages, because the sorceror tried to sonic damage his way out. I stepped out into the courtyard and hid behind the door, waited for the guards to rush out to the cages, then snuck in and found all of our stuff. They let the rest of the party out because we could fight and we offered to help. The party arrived just in time to see me dressing back up. One of the drow had been intimidated by the Half giant psychic warrior, and had shit himself. I had stolen some pants before finding my stuff, so I happily offered to give him his pants back. He needed them a lot more than me.

We then went and saved the day. Oh and the psion cohort was apparently half-drow royalty, so I had to go to her house, walk through her front door ethereally, go to her rooom, and fly her back on the paladin's mount. I arrived right after they killed the blasphemes that were attacking.

Finally, we were attacked by the main boss. I should probably have saved the sorceror/wizard/ultimate magus, but he insisted on engaging two devourers in single combat, and turned into a chimera. He recieved several negative levels. He was then killed, and we had to work hard to resurrect him in the following round. Anyway, I could have dealt with one of them, between their weak ACs, my Tenebrous turning, my Shock trooper+chupoclps pounce+flicker combination, but instead, I followed his advice and attacked the heavily armored death knight. Never again will I A: attack heavily armored opponents, because the dice gods hate me, nor will I B: follow that guy's advice. He's a tard.



Zeke

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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #77 on: January 15, 2009, 02:53:28 PM »
Hi, it's Zeke again. Hold on a minute while I get my dead horse....

Okay all set

your monsters sure gain initiative alot.


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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2009, 03:40:30 PM »
Hi, it's Zeke again. Hold on a minute while I get my dead horse....

Okay all set

your monsters sure gain initiative alot.


We use a by-round Initiative reroll, and failed Spot checks happen.
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Re: Paladin Captured by Drow Slavers
« Reply #79 on: February 09, 2011, 08:09:08 PM »
Hi, it's Zeke again. Hold on a minute while I get my dead horse....

Okay all set

your monsters sure gain initiative alot.

In the 4e campaign I've been half-playing in, monsters have had a very strong tendency to beat all the players on initiative except the random 1 or 2 who got lucky.  This is frequently my experience in 3.5 games in the past, too...