Author Topic: Factotum Challenge.  (Read 16326 times)

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Kaelik

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #100 on: November 03, 2008, 03:51:17 AM »
Sweet.

Anyone have any objections to a Ring that casts Grease on Command at CL 2?

It would also be my Item Familiar, so for the level 10 test I'd theoretically be handing out greases every round.

Just want to know what's too crazy.

Also, it doesn't say anywhere in the item description, but say I have the Shadow Hands, is there any limit to me using Cloak of Deception every round?

It doesn't give any recovery mechanic, nor does it limit itself to 1/round like the scripts.

Anyone know how those work?

EDIT: Okay, so haven't finished, and this is only one of the two I might play. Still waiting to finish off gear based on grease rig and shadow hands.

Shelly.

And mount.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 04:44:39 AM by Kaelik »

JaronK

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #101 on: November 03, 2008, 06:14:39 AM »
Anyone have any objections to a Ring that casts Grease on Command at CL 2?

I don't think anyone has said anything about custom items, but that would be Tshern's call.  Personally, I was avoiding them.

Quote
Also, it doesn't say anywhere in the item description, but say I have the Shadow Hands, is there any limit to me using Cloak of Deception every round?

That I can answer.  It just gives you the manuever, exactly as if you'd gained it via a feat or something.  Since you have no recovery mechanic, it would be once per encounter.

Though I have to say... whining about my optimization level and then busting out with a potion thrower Strongheart Halfling Rogue with a Wartrained Fleshraker while asking for a custom item of at will Grease... seriously?  Anyway, it's hard to see where your bonuses are coming from, such as the +10 to UMD that you have.  I'm assuming it's the Item Familiar, but it's hard to tell.

And check your weight limits.  With a strength of 6, you're probably encumbered just wearing the backpack, the armour, and the buckler.

JaronK
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 06:29:07 AM by JaronK »

Kaelik

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #102 on: November 03, 2008, 06:34:54 AM »
Though I have to say... whining about my optimization level and then busting out with a potion thrower Strongheart Halfling Rogue with a Wartrained Fleshraker while asking for a custom item of at will Grease... seriously?

I direct you to this post.

JaronK

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #103 on: November 03, 2008, 07:00:06 AM »
Yeah... that doesn't actually answer anything.

You've taken everything I've done, and then gone off the deep end with even greater optimization everywhere.  I pick a strong core race... you pick argueably the strongest setting specific rogue race available.  I make a strong version of a somewhat generic Factotum type, you go for a specific type of Rogue that never sees play.  I get a reasonable thematic mount, you go for a Warbeast Fleshraker.  I occasionally use the MIC combining rules to combine existing magic items and an item familiar that gives me skill ranks, you go for a custom item version of an item familiar that spams grease in addition to the skill ranks.  Heck, I use an item familiar to get a few more skill ranks and be less dependant on found gear, you make a character who can't function without it.

Now, that's extreme optimization, well above anything I'd even consider.  And I know that perhaps some people play that way (I don't, but that's fine).  But considering you've been complaining about even things like combining Feycraft and Dwarvencraft, going so far off the deep end of optimization seems strange to say the least.

But none of that answers the questions... can your character even carry the backpack and his armour without going over wieght limit?  See, one of the reasons I call the potion thrower Rogue something that no one plays is because it's only a thought excercise... in actual play it doesn't work.  In this case, you can't carry your gear.  Notice it's a move action to draw anything out of your Haversack, so you can't keep all your potions in it if you plan to use any in combat.  You'll have to keep a few out for throwing... and each one is 1 pound.  Also, where are your Item Familiar stored ranks actually placed, considering you can only invest 3 points of any given skill, and you haven't mentioned which powers it uses?

JaronK
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 09:07:12 AM by JaronK »

Straw_Man

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #104 on: November 03, 2008, 08:17:46 AM »

Interesting - a farcical response to the perceived cheese by getting cheesier. Well as long as its legal s'all cool. At the end of the day I still want to see how a Factotum compares.

And as an unbiased observer I at least will be looking at the optimisation level on the builds.

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JaronK

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #105 on: November 03, 2008, 01:38:38 PM »
Well, here's my level 5 version so far.  It's... well, it's the 5th level of the earlier 10th level.  Same mount though.  It's clearly a bit more sane than the Rogue, including a mount that's actually a domesticated animal and that the character has some chance of knowing about... and yes, weight limits are respected.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=89732

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Kaelik

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #106 on: November 03, 2008, 03:39:00 PM »
Wait, so all that bullcrap about RAW!RAW!RAW! and how depriving you of even a single bit of cheese is cheating in favor of the rogue, and then you all of  sudden switch tracks, drop Item Familiar, and complain about, well, my entire character sheet.

That's entertaining.

Kaelik

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #107 on: November 03, 2008, 04:53:52 PM »
...to the perceived cheese by getting cheesier...


And as an unbiased observer I at least will be looking at the optimisation level on the builds.

You don't come off as an unbiased observer to me.

Please explain how what I have is cheesier then his level 10 build (since his level 5 build decided to drop Item Familiar, crafting, ect.)

Omen of Peace

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #108 on: November 03, 2008, 05:20:14 PM »
I sense a symmetry here...

(Oh, and next on the channel: use-activated Wraithstrike for our Warblade ? ;))
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Ubernoob

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #109 on: November 03, 2008, 05:21:29 PM »
I sense a symmetry here...

(Oh, and next on the channel: use-activated Wraithstrike for our Warblade ? ;))
Why?  Emerald razor is good enough already.  Warblades need those swift actions.
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Omen of Peace

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #110 on: November 03, 2008, 05:42:23 PM »
Because Emerald Razor is only one attack... Making all attacks in a full-attack touch attacks is better than most boosts and you know it.
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Ubernoob

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #111 on: November 03, 2008, 05:49:45 PM »
Because Emerald Razor is only one attack... Making all attacks in a full-attack touch attacks is better than most boosts and you know it.
Eh, it's only damage.
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Omen of Peace

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #112 on: November 03, 2008, 06:01:46 PM »
Ok, last post since we're veering off-topic. In the "OoP can't think straight" series, I give you my last post.
...
The point of use-activated is that it doesn't take an action. You attack with the sword, Wraithstrike activates.

As for "only damage"...  :shrug
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Ubernoob

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #113 on: November 03, 2008, 06:09:23 PM »
Ok, last post since we're veering off-topic. In the "OoP can't think straight" series, I give you my last post.
...
The point of use-activated is that it doesn't take an action. You attack with the sword, Wraithstrike activates.

As for "only damage"...  :shrug
Wouldn't you still need to burn a swift action on it?  For something that activates every time you strike (not costing actions) we'd be going into ad hoc pricing, wouldn't we?
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Omen of Peace

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #114 on: November 03, 2008, 06:17:22 PM »
No.
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Kaelik

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #115 on: November 03, 2008, 06:45:46 PM »
You know Omen, if it weren't for Item Familiar, we wouldn't even be having this discussion about grease (which I'm probably not going to do because it's not worth it at level 5, and I'll be blinking at level 10).

But I'm not the one who insisted that a sentient item that breaks the skill RNG was so absolutely essential to my character that not including it is cheating.

But yes, I think that having an Item Familiar Sword that casts Wrathstrike on it's owner is exactly the type of thing that you allow when you allow Item Familiars.

Or are we nerfing all the parts of Item Familiar that don't benefit Factotums more then other classes?

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #116 on: November 03, 2008, 07:44:08 PM »
I've updated for flaws. link again.
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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #117 on: November 03, 2008, 08:31:50 PM »
I'd like to alert everyone that I have updated my sig.  Act accordingly.
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Kaelik

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #118 on: November 03, 2008, 08:33:20 PM »
I've updated for flaws. link again.

Are you going the Combat Brute + Shocktrooper route?

JaronK

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Re: Factotum Challenge.
« Reply #119 on: November 03, 2008, 09:51:49 PM »
Wait, so all that bullcrap about RAW!RAW!RAW! and how depriving you of even a single bit of cheese is cheating in favor of the rogue, and then you all of  sudden switch tracks, drop Item Familiar, and complain about, well, my entire character sheet.

That's entertaining.

No Kaelik.

First of all, note that my other build took the Item Familiar at 6.  I didn't drop it, it simply isn't in the build yet.

Second, your build isn't RAW.  It can't even carry it's own gear without being encumbered, but you seem to have just hand waved weight away... something you shouldn't do on a strength 6 halfling.

Third, I'm not saying it's wrong for you to optimize.   If Tshern says it's kosher, it is.  I'm saying it's hypocritical for you to criticize me for practical optimization, then go off the deep end and optimize like crazy.

JaronK