Author Topic: Break My Class?  (Read 2127 times)

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bkdubs123

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Break My Class?
« on: October 26, 2008, 06:04:23 PM »
Since I'm only so-so at this CharOp business, and I have a new system for warrior classes out, I'd like to ask if any of you are up to task of building the most optimized version of my Warlord that you possibly can.

Anyone up for it?

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2394.0

No need to go into TO here, we know what can be done when we enter that realm, just as thoroughly optimized as you can get it. This will let me know if I need to do some cut backs or make changes to the overall system.

Cyrocloud

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Re: Break My Class?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2008, 06:46:16 PM »
I got nothing, the fighter bonus feat list just doesn't have enough good feats to realy fill up those 28 extra feats(the deflection training would make Jack B. Quick good, and with a lot more feats), battleshaper and through the haze are nice abilites, and would be great in a gesalt, but they just come into to far to be broken.  It's definatly nicer than fighter for dipping since you get two feats at first level, and 3 for two levels.  If you could let your DM let you use the feats for FoI, a Factotum 9/warlord 11 could probably pull off 17 FoIs with out to much difficulty(needs 40 int to get this many), for 153 bonus inspiration per encounter.

bkdubs123

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Re: Break My Class?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2008, 06:59:12 PM »
Fair enough, though I do think you're probably underestimating the Fighter bonus feats list a little. Here's a build I quickly wrote up to showcase what the Warlord can do to hopefully get more people interested.[spoiler]Behold!! Dread Roberts!! http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=88665

His basic shtick: Tumble into flanking position for a net +8 (or more if he feints with Tide of Battle + Improved Feint) to hit, Power Attack for -10 + Fighting Defensively + Combat Expertise for -5, He doesn't actually care if he misses because he's just set himself up to obliterate. His AC rises to 58 and whenever a foe attacks him he can attempt to Parry it. If he does, he can use an AoO, of which he has infinite thanks to Improved Combat Reflexes, he gets to hit the poor sap that missed without taking Fighting Defensively penalties. Oh, and with Baffling Counterattack he can attack some random other guy within his reach (nice if he's saved his Tide of Battle to parry and then jump and destroy), and if he does THAT both parties go, "WTF?!" and become flatfooted allowing him to thrash for 1d6+32+8d6 Sneak Attack. Basically all he does is make people flat-footed or set up flanking opportunities Power Attack, Parry, and AoO the world allowing him deal obscene damage and stay VERY mobile while doing it thanks to maxed Tumble ranks and no armor check penalty due to no armor!

Oh, and did I mention that even enemy AoOs can provoke AoOs from 'ol Dread Roberts? Because they can. And woe unto you if he decides to go Blinding Speed full attack mode on your ass because you'll be flat-footed and flanked and you're about to get hit for at least 24d6+66 damage. I'm pretty sure his AC can get even higher. I might have missed some stacking potential, but on the whole I'd say he's a machine but not overpowered. Certainly seems fun as hell. And he knows 24 more feats, I just didn't care to come up with those because that would basically be an entire other optimized build that he could switch to given a couple hours' practice. I just came up with his readied feats.

*Create-A-Feat-Chain (with relavant Parry chain) here: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2379.0[/spoiler]

Now, the new challenge - Can anyone do better, and without using homebrewed feats to boot? You're best bet, I'd think, is a standard full plate basher.

bkdubs123

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Re: Break My Class?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2008, 07:55:52 AM »
Okay, instead of trying to break my class would anyone simply be willing to help me test it against a Warblade? I want the two classes to be roughly balanced against each other and I can't do a lot of meaningful playtesting myself (away from gaming group).

I'd appreciate any help I can get.  :blush

Risada

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Re: Break My Class?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2008, 02:48:54 PM »
If you want, I can try to help you, but would this be in the PbP area?

bkdubs123

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Re: Break My Class?
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2008, 03:15:20 PM »
I don't want to do any sort of PbP, I was just looking for some optimizers to maybe run some tests, gauntlets, same game, standard procedures. Pitting a Warlord against a Warblade will also give me some worthwhile information, but if they perform differently against various encounters I'd like to know about that too. Since I don't have any real optimization skills I'm just kinda hoping to get some serious info from people that do.

EjoThims

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Re: Break My Class?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2008, 07:29:15 PM »
Well, True Aptitude means it's very easy to get Lightning Mace (+1 attack on a crit threat) Eagle Claw (+1 attack) Crescent Knives or Kukris, since it actually even specifies any feat that applies to a specific weapon.

Add on Blood in the Water and you have a rather potent Kukri swinging SoD melleer by 14th.

Other than that, seems alright.

bkdubs123

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Re: Break My Class?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2008, 08:37:04 PM »
Yeah, True Aptitude was written that way on purpose. Not specifically for that trick, but thematically to allow the Warlord to utilize weapon styles with weapons they weren't devised with. Yeah, the whole Roundabout Kick, Lightning Mace, Kukri, Blood in the Water combo can get really absurd, but I wanted to allow other options which won't be as silly powerful, and will be really flavorful. IE: You can grab basically any of those weapon style feats and two-weapon fight with whatever you want stacking the benefits together. Pretty nifty.

So what can a Warblade do to compete with the way a Warlord utilizes his feats?