Author Topic: icantatrix-hathran, what else?  (Read 2917 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Unbeliever

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 766
icantatrix-hathran, what else?
« on: October 24, 2008, 01:22:27 AM »
I'm looking at playing a version of the old icantatrix/hathran combo.  The campaign will start around 8th level. 

Here's what I'm thinking so far:

Wizard 5/Icantatrix 3/Hathran 1
Feats:  Combat Reflexes, Stand Still, Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Leadership, Ethran, Iron Will
- Unearthed Arcana variant that gets fighter feats
- Metamagic Storm for a free metamagic feat, and that other location that gives you Iron Will

The plan so far, besides the awesome spell flexibility from Hathran, is to use a tiny version of the Nasty Gentleman and get a couple of symbiotes and crank up persistent Thunder Lance (or I could use Celerity).  Combined w/ Stand Still that gives him nice battlefield control, along w/ some decent damage output and there's all the other Nasty Gentleman fun.  Firestride Exhalation and Lightning Leap will be particular favorites. 

The question is what else to do, either w/ feats or levels?  I could always take more levels of Icantatrix, but I was wondering if there was anything else interesting.  I'm not really looking for any more sheer power, since as it stands it will probably be plenty tough for our campaign.  Although if there's an easy way to jack up the damage on Thunder Lance that'd be nice (maximizing it through icantatrix will make the DC too high for this level).  I initially thought of going Mark of the Dauntless to exploit Celerity, but I thought that might go too far for the game.  I also thought of dipping into Paragnostic Apostle for energy supremacy. 

It'd be great to hear your guys ideas, thanks in advance.

Achiever_Type

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: icantatrix-hathran, what else?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2008, 12:28:39 AM »
So, the other class that's been a personal fav out of that book is the Spellguard of Silverymoon.  5 level prestige class with some bonus meta magic feats and a capstone to die for.  Transfer your personal spells to others!  Incantatrar + Spellguard is just nuts.  Transfer all those personal spells to your friends, with free persistance!  It requires a certain flavor, but its wicked powerful and about as simple a build as you can do.  I'm actually running a current version of this with a gentleman who loves to scorching ray (enervation is the best ray spell to MM the hell out of, but as Treantmonk once said of that, its too cheesy).

Endarire

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2171
    • Email
Re: icantatrix-hathran, what else?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 05:07:59 AM »
Conjurer3/Master Conjurer2 (OR Wizard+2)/Incantatrix3/Hathran1

Get an acorn of far travel, fully submerge it in quintessence and seemingly you can spontaneously cast any wizard spell anywhere as often as you have slots.

I made a similar InHathrantrix build.

Why Stand Still and Combat Reflexes?  You're primarily a wizard!
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Unbeliever

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 766
Re: icantatrix-hathran, what else?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2008, 05:04:59 PM »
Indeed, the InHathran acorn of far travel was exactly my plan.  Although I didn't think I'd need to use any of the secret page tricks, etc. as it seemed enough the way it was.  Thanks for pointing out quintessence, that's a great find.  I was just going to get an item that casts acorn of far travel or a custom continuous item (we're pretty comfortable w/ those in my group).

I'm also going to do a mini-Nasty Gentleman, I've found just a couple of symbiotes are more than enough.  So, 3+ persistent Thunder Lances give me great battlefield control.  Combined w/ Combat Reflexes + Stand Still it's just gravy b/c I can lock people down from 20' away.  Thunder Lance is just a touch attack and does decent damage (that nobody is going to resist), and I'll probably persist Bite of the Wererat in there anyway for Weapon Finesse.  Even w/ the wizard's oh so shitty BAB I'll hit 90+% of the time.  Like I said, freebie battlefield control w/out taking any actions, and it will keep me out of melee, which is always good.

@Achiever-Type
Thanks for mentioning Spellguard.  I agree w/ you, it is a great class.  And, helping out the party is always a plus.  To get persistent buffs on other people I'd have to jack up my Spellcraft score to insanity, but that could certainly be done.  It'll probably be either the Spellguard, or maybe some Tainted Scholar cheese to make spontaneously slapping metamagic feats on my uber-spontaneous casting even easier. 

Omen of Peace

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1053
  • Wise Madman
Re: icantatrix-hathran, what else?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2008, 08:39:42 PM »
- The Thunderlance makes normal melee attacks, not touch attacks. But perhaps you're using a Persisted Wraithstrike... Weapon Finesse is unlikely to work with it too.

- Unfortunately storing the acorn in quintessence removes it from the time stream... which means it's not really in your possession anymore. The trick depends on your DM's good will.

- Most class features will pale in comparison to the tricks you're using. Just progress Incantatrix and you'll be fine.
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson

Unbeliever

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 766
Re: icantatrix-hathran, what else?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2008, 02:55:07 AM »
Oh bollocks!  You're totally right.  Thanks for pointing that out to me.  As you noted, I could persist wraithstrike to get around it, though the potential loss of weapon finesse would really suck.  I was looking at it as a lesser alternative to flame whips, which I used w/ another character and found were just devastating, but it's depressing just how inferior thunder lance is to flame whips, even taking into account energy resistance, etc.  Hmmmm, I'm going to have to decide how I want to end up building it then. 

I am still a little uncertain about the quintessence thing, I could see it going either way so it'll be up to the GM.  I may just have to cast the silly spell every so often.  Thanks again. 

Endarire

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2171
    • Email
Re: icantatrix-hathran, what else?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2008, 04:19:12 AM »
The spell acorn of far travel must be cast on an acorn attached to a living oak tree.  Unless you can quickly teleport to one in your base, you need to stop there and cast the spell at least weekly.

An item of continuous acorn of far travel should work however.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Omen of Peace

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1053
  • Wise Madman
Re: icantatrix-hathran, what else?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2008, 01:29:27 PM »
I much prefer Thunderlance to Flaming Whips. Note that whips do not threaten, so no AoOs with them. The DM may rule otherwise since it's not a 100% clear whether they're like ordinary whips.
And not being able to cast spells with material components really sucks - except if you take Eschew Material which I never do, and which I doubt you will since you're feat-starved.

The big advantage is the touch attack. And... actually, taking a second look at your build you'll have a really poor BAB, making the whips interesting. Thunderlance is very much a gish spell.
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson

Unbeliever

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 766
Re: icantatrix-hathran, what else?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2008, 06:22:18 PM »
Thanks for all the help.  I'm still deciding on characters for this upcoming campaign, which will largely depend on how much of a magey mood but if I go w/ this one I think it's going to be wraithstrike thunderlances.

I had always thought of Flaming Whips as being a natural attack (I think it refers to it as giving "natural reach") and not functioning w/ the funky rules of a whip, for which I would usually have expected them to say more.  But, looking at it again, it's at least ambiguous.  A funky thing that had occurred to me was to pair persistent flame whips w/ girallon's blessing, thus avoiding the flamey forearms problem, but I think you're right that thunderlances will be better.