Author Topic: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC  (Read 5559 times)

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Sunic_Flames

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2008, 08:38:26 PM »
Optimizers are teddy bears. Honest.

With Vicious Collision Spell Storing Bloodstone claws. Because Vorpal is highly suboptimal. :evillaugh
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[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Ubernoob

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2008, 08:39:50 PM »
Ubernoob is a happy panda.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2008, 10:50:34 PM »
We may be teddy bears, but we have acid and brimstone for tongues. We criticize harshly when we think a build is weak or ineffective or too vulnerable to survive (one of the reasons we discourage Glass Cannon builds is because they are too fragile to survive).

That being said, you need to get Dragonborn approved. Or Gnomes, either one works. Low magic or not, you will not survive with your stats that low.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

skydragonknight

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2008, 11:56:37 PM »
Teddy Bears NEED NOT BE GOOD ;)
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

dark_samuari

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2008, 02:48:17 AM »
Whisper Gnome if you really never want to be seen.

Runestar

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2008, 02:58:04 AM »
Sunic Flames is harsh only because he cares.  :)
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FurryFury

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2008, 06:59:47 AM »
With 8 Con it may be better to become undead. Necropolitan or (sic!) Curst from MoF.
Curst in low-magic world is nearly unkillable and make a nice flavor. I think Mugen no Juunin (Blade of the Immortal) anime series is a great example of such thing in Japanese-like setting.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2008, 10:21:02 AM »
Actually, I'm harsh because to show weakness is to invite exploiters.

Now where's the teddy bear with fucking laser beam eyes?
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Laime

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2008, 03:59:38 PM »
People! Teddy bears or whatnot!
I said I'll bump up the Con. I said there are no other races.
Please answer my other questions now.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 04:01:10 PM by Laime »

Ubernoob

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2008, 04:08:21 PM »
For build, I'd go something like Rogue 4/ Warblade X (some number under 4 to cherrypick strikes)/ Swashbuckler Y (some number that gets more sneak attack and full bab for power attack and moderate skills).

You'll want able learner and daring outlaw.  4+int is decent to cover the skills you want.  If you're having trouble with skills then spice in some ranger levels (the first four ranger levels give like 2 useful feats and a bunch of added random good shit).

Mind making an outline based on that?
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Akalsaris

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2008, 01:52:00 AM »
Whisper Gnome if you really never want to be seen.

I still haven't forgiven my DM for not allowing me to make my (party tank/sneaky ninja role) gnome swordsage a whisper gnome.  I mean, jeez, +10ft movement, +2 Dex, darkvision, +4 hide/move silently, +2 listen/spot, and silence on top of the other gnome goodies?  It's like the race was written specifically for my goddamn character. 

With that said, I vote the OP picks Whisper Gnome as his race, just so he can enjoy the awesomeness that will never be mine.

Laime

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2008, 02:58:04 AM »
ubernoob
I guess doing a Swashbuckler 3 is a viable choice... I'm not so sure about the Warblade though. Wouldn't it be better to go swordsage and Shadow Hand discipline?
Aslo, seeing that I'm solo and thus have to be able to do everything I'm not sure about loosing that much skillpoints... I don't have enough of them as it is  :blush
I don't really need Able learner since I have all the skills I need on the class-skill list. If I decide to go Swashbuckler I'll definitely have to take Daring outlaw though.

Akalsaris
I can't really take a Whisper Gnome as a race, you see, since there are no gnomes in the world.
And I'm a she.

Smiles55

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2008, 03:52:29 AM »
Carmendie monk Int to wis, Evasion
Swashbuckler Int to damage, Finesse
Swordsage Wis to AC and Dam

Start with SS due to the 6 + int mod x6 at 1st

The concept is Int and Wis  and Dex all compliment both your attack and Defense,
Intuitive attack is possible if you want just a normal monk and simple weapons.
I personally like the unarmed varient of SS.

I'm not sure what the pro's on this board can do with this...

Ubernoob

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2008, 03:53:30 AM »
ubernoob
I guess doing a Swashbuckler 3 is a viable choice... I'm not so sure about the Warblade though. Wouldn't it be better to go swordsage and Shadow Hand discipline?
Aslo, seeing that I'm solo and thus have to be able to do everything I'm not sure about loosing that much skillpoints... I don't have enough of them as it is  :blush
I don't really need Able learner since I have all the skills I need on the class-skill list. If I decide to go Swashbuckler I'll definitely have to take Daring outlaw though.
Swordsage limits your power attack by one.  If you take two levels with the second at 8 it is worth it though.  The warblade is primarily for diamond mind maneuvers.  There is one that makes the enemy flatfooted and another that makes your attack a touch attack.  Just one level should get them.
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skydragonknight

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2008, 04:04:43 AM »
Swordsage is a bit less impressive for a solo rogue, since the main boon--Island of Blades--requires a flanking partner. Still, the Shadow Blade feat is quite good so I wouldn't take that off the table yet.
But given the second level Wis to AC, I'd actually suggest a Ninja/Swordsage instead of a Rogue/Swordsage if you were to hypothetically go down the Swordsage route. In this case you would go for high dex and Wis instead of Dex and Int. And while Swordsage and Ninja AC bonuses don't stack, wearing light armor having a nice number of ghost steps is nice.
Edit: bah! evasion requirement. no Ninja/Ninja Spies! >< /Edit

Back to ubernoob's idea though:
Warblade works with Swordsage because there is some Int synergy. Also d12 hit dice. Solo campaign + d12 = longer life.
For Rogue, take Death's Ruin ACF in Complete Champion. Basically you lose trap sense for 1/2 sneak attack dice vs. undead. So a Rogue 4/Swash 3/whatever 5 would have 2d6 against undead.

Smiles' idea isn't bad, but you honestly don't have the good stats to go around. It happens sometimes.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 04:08:30 AM by skydragonknight »
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

skydragonknight

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2008, 04:24:54 AM »
For race: is Dwarf an option? Cha isn't necessary here and in an almost no magic setting Darkvision would be very very good. nothing says stealth like walking around with a lantern...the Con bonus is actually just a bonus.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Crouching tiger, hidden dragon, low AC
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2008, 10:42:23 AM »
Swordsage is a bit less impressive for a solo rogue, since the main boon--Island of Blades--requires a flanking partner. Still, the Shadow Blade feat is quite good so I wouldn't take that off the table yet.
But given the second level Wis to AC, I'd actually suggest a Ninja/Swordsage instead of a Rogue/Swordsage if you were to hypothetically go down the Swordsage route. In this case you would go for high dex and Wis instead of Dex and Int. And while Swordsage and Ninja AC bonuses don't stack, wearing light armor having a nice number of ghost steps is nice.
Edit: bah! evasion requirement. no Ninja/Ninja Spies! >< /Edit

Back to ubernoob's idea though:
Warblade works with Swordsage because there is some Int synergy. Also d12 hit dice. Solo campaign + d12 = longer life.
For Rogue, take Death's Ruin ACF in Complete Champion. Basically you lose trap sense for 1/2 sneak attack dice vs. undead. So a Rogue 4/Swash 3/whatever 5 would have 2d6 against undead.

Smiles' idea isn't bad, but you honestly don't have the good stats to go around. It happens sometimes.

Evasion the easy way: Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots) and Open Least Chakra (Feet). Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, and if you have an essentia pool, a bonus to Reflex saves.


[spoiler][/spoiler]