Author Topic: Wheel of Time d20  (Read 15438 times)

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ksbsnowowl

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2008, 01:27:42 PM »
Noncasters roughly equal to 3.0, eh? Seems interesting. Anyone know if it's still stocked anywhere?
Probably not in new condition.  If you look on Amazon you'll probably be able to find some sellers with used copies.  I bought mine new back in the day, and picked up a second copy at a used book store.

As for the noncasters, yes, I'd agree they are on par with 3.0 non-casters, though better in some regards (the Woodsman had more and better class features than the ranger, d10 HP, and 6 skill points per level).  The Armsmen got fewer feats than a fighter (8, instead of 11), but got 4 skill points per level, and a half-good Reflex save (+1 at first level, +9 at 20th).  Wanderers get later and lesser sneak attack than a Rogue, but get several Skill Focus feats.  The Noble gets some Bard-like inspiration abilities, and the Algi'd'siswai are pretty basic (and probably the weakest base class - they are better represented by going Woodsman/Algi).
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ksbsnowowl

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2008, 02:43:05 AM »
Update for the person asking about picking up a copy.  I was in Portland last week and found 2 copies in new condition, for $40 each (like 5 cents over cover price) at Powell's books.  I bought one copy.  You might be able to order the other one online though.

Also, I'm going to be evil and copy my previously linked thread contributions here, since the WotC one looks to be making its way toward oblivion.  Forgive me.

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ksbsnowowl

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2008, 02:44:05 AM »
Quote from: Zinuk
Concerning the weaves, are you aware of the two netbooks, UtDB (http://mapage.noos.fr/zinuk/downloads/UtDBsf.zip) and AoI (http://scepter.thehumblest.net/AoI/)? They have plenty new weaves, some based on the books and missing in the rulebook. A few more weaves missing from the books can be found at the end of the Forsaken write-ups (http://mapage.noos.fr/zinuk/downloads/forsaken.zip) (some of them are unfinished, though, it's a work in progress).

You can also look up the stuff already existing for sword forms (http://pencil-pushers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29http://mapage.noos.fr/zinuk/downloads/kod_sourcebook.zip) with all the new stuff from KoD. You can look up how the new weaves were handled. If you have any comment/suggestion about them, please do.
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ksbsnowowl

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2008, 02:45:30 AM »
Quote from: ksbsnowowl
Oh, don't worry; if I write some weaves, I'll definitely post them here.

I was giving some thought to the interaction of a Vitality/Wounds system and the above comments I made about healing. First off, I realized that healing should apply first to any vitality point damage (the superficial stuff) before it heals actual wounds (represented by the Wounds points). Note how in the books there are times when an Aes Sedai wishes she could heal someone, but purposefully leave them with a headache as a small lesson (ie - Moiraine healing Egwene after Fain escapes Fal Dara in The Great Hunt); however, healing can't do that. If you heal the worst wound someone has, all their more minor wounds and bruises are gone.

I'm still feeling my way through the implementation of the Vitality/Wounds system for WoT. As I looked at the V/W system presented in the d20 SRD (ala Unearthed Arcana) I realized I wouldn't use Vitality/Wounds straight as it is presented there. In that system, the vitality points merely represent physical exertion and fatigue, not so much actual (minor) physical injuries. The Wounds points are what show actual wounds. At least that's how it comes across to me; the vitality points heal back too quickly to represent actual minor injuries. If they aren't actual injuries, then there is nothing for the One Power to heal (except washing away fatigue - but that is a seperate weave in the book). I think I'd change the vitality healing rate to 1 point per hour, period. That means if you took 24 points of vitality damage, but no wounds damage, yeah, it'll take you a day to heal and overcome the newfound pain of minor cuts, and small sprains and muscle strains. Minor damage, not in the least life-threatening, but actual physical damage to your body. Something the One Power is actually healing.

Perhaps it's not a big difference from healing one point per level per hour, but it's at least semiplausible that a minor cut or pulled muscle will have healed enough in a day to not hamper you; the same being healed in 4 hours (a 6th level character) pushes it a bit too much. But maybe I'm being nit-picky. I know hit points are an abstract thing to begin with.

Also, with the Vitality/Wounds system as presented, subdual (or nonleathal, if you prefer) damage doesn't exist. This obviously creates some problems for the mechanics of the Healing weave as written, and I don't like some of the other mechanical implications of no subdual damage (how do you knock someone out without risking killing them? As the V/W system is presented, you can't).

I guess the easiest way is to just add in subdual damage, and keep a running total as usual. When your subdual damage exceeds the total of your wounds points and vitality points combined, you fall unconscious (and perhaps any excess subdual damage begins reducing your vitality points - that way it is possible to beat someone to a bloody, dead pulp with repeated punching) With subdual damage included in the system, the Healing weave would first convert any vitality damage to subdual, and then any wounds damage to subdual. Then the subdual would heal at the rate of 1 point per level per hour.

I'm not sure how I feel about the extremely complicated series of saves one makes if you reach 0 wounds points. I know that my group had to look up the rule every time it occured in the game I played with V/W points. But I guess it is more realistic than players saying "Oh, he's only at -1 hp's, we can wait a few rounds to heal him..."

Anyway, I began rambling 3 paragraphs ago, so I'd better end this post and get to bed.
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ksbsnowowl

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2008, 02:46:46 AM »
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ksbsnowowl

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2008, 02:47:39 AM »
Quote from: Zinuk
There are quite of few revisions of the shield/slice weaves. I had made a little list of all those I know of in the old Call of the Horn Forums (still available here (http://mapage.noos.fr/zinuk/downloads/forums/coth.zip) in zipped form; it's in the "Alternate OP rules index" thread). I'll try to make one day a pdf out of all these rules, but it's not for now.

You might be interested in a channeling system I did a few years ago which is based on opposed rolls and OP Strength & OP Dexterity. Here it is in pdf (http://mapage.noos.fr/zinuk/downloads/OPduel.pdf) (it's an unfinished system in its current form, but might give you some ideas).

I tried to make it so that it simulate as exactly as possible the books (for example, there are no will save mechanics for that reason). The price is additional complexity, with the introduction of two new "stats" you have to compute and add each time you use the system. It was designed to pass the "6 Aes Sedai can hold any shield" test and the "13 linked Aes Sedai can shield anyone" test. The "1/3rd weaker holding the shield" test is not automatic, but highly probable.

The stats used for the main characters in the examples are those from the Call of the Horn write-ups (the list of strengths can be found here (http://mapage.noos.fr/zinuk/downloads/21OPStrengthList.zip)). For example, the highest strength assumed is 20, which is a bit arbitrary. If you use different stats, the system would need a few tweaks.
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ksbsnowowl

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2008, 03:03:02 AM »
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ksbsnowowl

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2008, 11:03:51 PM »
Quote
I realized that healing should apply first to any vitality point damage (the superficial stuff) before it heals actual wounds (represented by the Wounds points). Note how in the books there are times when an Aes Sedai wishes she could heal someone, but purposefully leave them with a headache as a small lesson (ie - Moiraine healing Egwene after Fain escapes Fal Dara in The Great Hunt); however, healing can't do that. If you heal the worst wound someone has, all their more minor wounds and bruises are gone.

So as I continue to read through the series, I come across things that change how certain weaves should work.  In the prologue of Crossroads of Twighlight we see a POV from Sumitsu (sp) as she heals Dobraine, who is on the verge of death.  In it she states a few things that are revelations about how healing works.  The first is that she could heal Dobraine just a hair, or she could heal him to full health.  This itself isn't really a revelation, but it is what she decides to do.  The result of that healing is the revelation that causes one to reinterpret Moiraine's thoughts on not being able to leave a headache.  Sumitsu heals Dobraine just a hair, and it stops his internal bleeding enough that he doesn't bleed out, but it also slightly heals a minor wound on his scalp, making it look as though it had been healing for several days.  Thus, not all superficial wounds are fully healed before any healing is applied to deep, life-threatening wounds.  They do heal somewhat in proportion to each other; it's just that minor wounds end up getting fully healed before major damage is fully healed.

The second revelation is that the amount of shock the patient experiences (and thus the likelihood that the patient will die while being healed) increases with the amount of healing the patient receives.  That's why Sumitsu only healed Dobraine a very small bit, and is allowing him to recover the rest on his own, as imperfect as that will be.  If she had healed any more than enough to give him a mere chance at stabilizing, he would have died from the shock of it.

Lastly, she states that healing him a hair and healing him fully requires the same amount of the Power.  This is seemingly counter-intuitive to every other thing we've seen done with the Power throughout the series.  We've seen time and again how using more of the Power makes an effect stronger.  It also doesn't work well as a game mechanic in a game based upon levels, and on that basis (more than the apparent contradiction), I am disregarding it for the purposes of "perfecting" these weaves.

The first revelation about healing being spread "evenly" between serious and minor injuries makes sense when you think about it, but it becomes somewhat difficult to implement in an encapsulated fashion for a game making use of Vitality and Wounds points for a HP system.  The best I could come up with was that the Healing weave should heal X1d8+X2+channeler level, where X is the weave slot level spent to cast the healing weave.  The X1+Channeler level would apply to the Vitality points, while the X2 value would apply to Wounds point damage.  Then, if the vitality healing surpasses the amount of vitality damage, it would then start healing the wound point damage.  Yes, this system gives a little "extra" free healing in the amount of the weave level, but that's ok... due to the Vitality/Wounds system the PC's have more HP's that need to be healed anyway.

The second revelation about the system shock being proportional to the amount of damage healed leads me to make the 1d4 damage that is immediately healed something larger that scales with weave level.  Whatever method is designed for this, it becomes important to note that it becomes more dangerous to heal more as your current percentage of HP total gets smaller.  There are two methods in my mind at the moment to simulate this.  The first is to simply make the 1d4 into 1d4 per weave level, thus a 5th level slot would require that you can survive 5d4 system shock.  Alternately, it could be a little less random, and make the value equal to 1d4+weave level.  Thus, someone at -3 HP's would almost surely die from a 5th level weave, causing 1d4+5 "damage," but would be fine getting healed by a 1st level heal (he could easily survive 1d4+1 "damage").

Anyway, I'll write this all into a coherent weave later.
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2008, 01:08:22 PM »
this is all very interesting.  A friend and I are currently working on redoing the WoT d20 since we both feel it is very messed up.  In the several games we have played you either were a channeler or ended up a prop to get in the way of the next attack so the channeler didn't have to get hit.  This is partly the DM's but mostly the game system as the classes as written have no real defense against a channeler unless they are several levels above them and even then it is questionable.  And when it comes to offense the non-channelers don't even come close to a much lower level channeler.  I saw Meg felt the channelers should be godly when compared to the rest of the classes and i agree with it from a novels first point of view, but for a gaming system if you have to play one of 2 classes to even be useful there is an issue.  In my opinion it takes the worst flaws of 3.x and puts them under a microscope so they are even more glaring.

I have looked through the books and had several ideas on how to 'fix' things but i'm still not sure what exactly we will do. I know we plan on reworking some of the weaves, harden air is the worst, so that people have a chance to survive an angry channeler. And also give some things that are totally useless a chance to be as cool as they should be, wolf brother in particular.  We also plan on integrating some of ToB maneuvers into the system as they would clearly reflect a blade master much better than the current system.
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ksbsnowowl

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2008, 02:44:07 PM »
I don't see what the problem is with Harden Air - it allows a reflex save.  Sure, I guess if you've got someone pinned in a confined space, they may not be able to escape it, but you had them penned in to begin with.
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2008, 03:38:28 PM »
re read it. even on a successful save they are still caught just not suffocating because their head is free.  My low level channeler does harden air and you make the save then one of my teammates coup de gras your head since you can't move and are helpless. Plus how likely is it that you will make the save in the first place, i only need to get one stat really high to make it hard to make a save you have to get 3 high since you don't know what save i am going to make you roll.

edit:  It is the same problem that all d20 games suffer with spells, but it is amplified due to WoT's lack of magic items that can help the non-channeler and the frequent use of low saves for the classes.  The woodsman as written has no good save for example.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2008, 04:10:28 PM by archangel.arcanis »
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ksbsnowowl

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2008, 04:25:15 PM »
I quote:

"A target who makes his save either dodges free of the hardened air or, if the space is too confined, manages to get his head free..."

Someone who makes his save dodges free, thus I see no problem.  And as I said before, sure, if you've got them penned into a small space, then yes, they do "auto fail."  Don't get caught in small spaces by Aes Sedai.
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2008, 05:38:57 PM »
I'll double check it when i get home then.  It could be that it was how one of the previous DM's explained it, i try not to use such cheesy tactics, so when i played a channeler i didn't use the power.
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Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2008, 01:08:15 PM »
Ok well you were right they do have to be cornered for it.  On that note then the only issue is the same one i mentioned in my edit, the saves mechanic. 

This is an issue throughout d20. I can make you roll one of 3 defenses and you always have a base 5% chance of failure likely more. Channelers only need 1 good stat and another they can jack up into the stratosphere.  The stats aren't as easy to get super high as in the other games though so maybe with some adjustment to the other classes, mostly making sure of high saves, all should balance out.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #54 on: December 29, 2008, 02:41:29 PM »
*cast Raise Thread*

I didn't see this thread before, and that's a shame.  I love WoT and have run several games with the d20 book.  My big caveat in games, though, is that unless I have a computer handy, I don't allow channelers because of all the weave look-ups.  Now, as infuriating as that might sound to some folk, it's actually lead to some excellent stuff.

I've had several adventures that were apparently quite fun, so I'm told:

-First game I ran had an Aes Sedai, her Warder, a wanderer and the most martial Ogier you've ever heard of.  They stopped a Black sister from getting away with a cache of ter-angreal and had a nice showdown on the north side of Caemlyn.

-Two Ebou Dari brothers of a wealthy merchant family (wanderer and Blademaster) stopped an attempt at toppling Tylin from the throne and gained noble status for their family.

-Two runaway Accepted went to help their brigand father on the Plains of Maredo.  Believe it or not, two wanderers brought them in.  Tactics, man, tactics!

-The last game had a group of 3 go to Cairhien to bring back a piece of cuendillar that was purchased by their noble employer.  Turned out to be one of the seals and they were ambushed, as well as having Padan Fain try to steal the seal from them.

Now, do I feel the need to have channelers in a game?  I'd love it, honestly.  I could employ more fun tactics (Myrdraal would be great fun) and introduce new plot elements.  As it stands, I find the WoT d20 to be servicable enough.  I absolutely love the Blademaster prestige class, and would desperately try to get it ported over to a 3.0/3.5 game.

Anyway, sorry about the necroposting, I just really, really wanted to chime in.

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2009, 06:02:41 PM »
Hey does anyone know where I can find copies of the character classes that had been modded to fit 3.5 standards?

I'm going to start an Aiel game for two of my friends and I was hoping to find those on the net-- I just haven't been successful in locating them again.
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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #56 on: April 14, 2009, 07:09:22 AM »
WoT Saga (StarWars Saga adaption) - not finished

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Re: Wheel of Time d20
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2009, 09:57:54 PM »
WoT Saga (StarWars Saga adaption) - not finished

That's pretty amazing AND that site had everything else I was looking for as well! So thanks!  :D


Anyone here ever play the Wheel of Time d20 game published by WotC back in 2001?

I've been tinkering with it recently in anticipation of eventually running a campaign with my live table-top group, and I'm just curious if anyone else here has played it, or even reads the series.

I love the Wheel of Time. I've been reading the series when only the first two or three books had been published. I kept up with the series with each release (I even got to get him to autograph 'A Crown of Swords' for me at a bookstore)-- Now I'm re-reading the series again in anticipation of the release of 'A Gathering Storm' in November.

I'm loving this series all that much more this time through-- I don't have to wait years, and let the holes in my memory get as large as Mat's.

The second reason I'm re-reading the Wheel of Time is for gaming purposes.

Have you guys played the WotC campaign book 'Prophecies of the Dragon'? I think the main problem is that it feels like what it is; a Product Designed by people that Think from a DnD standpoint. It lacks a real Wheel of Time feel, though they did try to capture various important events. It feels like DnD with the Wot setting. Does anyone agree?

I trying to collect ideas as I re-read the series for my own adaptation using what I can from prophecies of the dragon, but I'm dropping the Aes Sedai as the plot-driver. In WoT EVERYONE knows that Aes Sedai are tricksy bitches. No one in their right mind other than a warder would gladly do the bidding of an Aes Sedai, you know?

I'm using a young noble who collects old things, like a few characters from the series have been known to do. His family used to work for Hawkwing, and deep below his home is stored a Stasis Box with a book that speaks about the Horn and its location at the Eye of the World.

The Party would be acting as agents on this man's behalf, and they have to try to find the Eye of the world. I'm looking to incorporate the False Dragon in Caemlyn, reacurring Whitecloaks, and the Waygate that Fain "left open" after he chased after Rand & company. The adventure would eventually take them into the borderlands, and possibly to witness the battle of Tarwins Gap where they first See Rand appear.

The PCs would find the location of the Eye of the World, but only after the characters of the book are long gone. Already the Blight is slipping in. Of course, the Horn is gone.

The adventures would have to return empty handed, but possibly would stop through Fal Dara to resupply and to gather news. They may bump into a couple of the main characters but not in any meaningful way. The excitement to see here is the coming of the Amyrlin Seat. The Attack on the Keep...

Anyway, just some rambling thoughts... :)
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