Author Topic: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin  (Read 222534 times)

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Rebel7284

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2009, 05:23:54 PM »
foreign language editions have the table correspond to the text

Can someone confirm this?
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2009, 05:40:17 PM »
I don't have it personally (I seem to recall the Portuguese translation being cited on 330).

It doesn't really matter, since text takes precedence over tables regardless.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 05:56:51 PM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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Rebel7284

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2009, 07:33:03 PM »
I don't have it personally (I seem to recall the Portuguese translation being cited on 330).

It doesn't really matter, since text takes precedence over tables regardless.

Yes, however, the sage recommends going by the table for both Rainbow Servant and Sacred Fist.  While I'm aware that many sage rulings are loopy, it would be nice to have an additional piece of proof to solidify that full progression was indeed the intent.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2009, 07:25:33 AM »
If stuff from the Dragon Compendium is allowed, bloodline feats are always fun.  Add nine spells to your spell list, with the restriction that you can't cast spells with certain descriptors.

Like, for example, Fire Bloodline gives a spells including pyrotechnics and cloudkill, with the price that you can't learn or cast spells with the [water] descriptor.  Either of them.

Or, the necromantic bloodline gives goodies like vampiric touch and trap the soul, with the "downside" that you can't cast conjuration(healing) spells.


Basically, a nice way to snag some spells, and, unlike arcane disciple, you can cast the added spells multiple times per day.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2009, 04:53:15 AM »
The Binder/Beguiler/AnimaMage/ShadowcraftMage isn't legal. It lacks Spell Focus: Illusion, and Earth Sense. Try this one instead:

Beguiler 2/Binder 1/Anima Mage 4/Shadowcraft Mage 3/Anima Mage +6/X4
Feats: Versatile Spellcaster (flaw1), Earth Sense (flaw 2), Heighten (1), Improved Binding (3), SF: Illusion (6), Earth Spell (9), Twin Spell (12), Residual Magic (15), ? (18)

X could be more SCM, Shadow Adept, Shadowcrafter, Magical Trickster, Uncanny Trickster, etc.

With Twin + Earth Spell + Residual Magic, you can get three high level Shadow Illusions for one slot (plus a 1st level slot), but one is cast a round later.

You can also use Shadow Illusion to emulate spells a level higher than your highest level spell slots by combining Versatile Caster and Earth Spell.
[spoiler]
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woodenbandman

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2009, 01:31:25 AM »
Ultimate Magus not good for beguilers? Blasphemy! It's the best known combo for a wizard! Wizard/Beguiler has Int synergy and free metamagic, as well as the versatility allowing the wizard to specialize and ban Illusion and Enchantment while still benefitting for from the illusion and enchantment spells.

Hallack

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2009, 10:56:56 AM »
I love this class.  Love the flavor, most the abilities, the flexibility, it's just great.  That said I have not actually had the opportunity to play one yet but looks like that may change soon.  (*Background* Yay!!!).

Now I'm just torn on what to actually do with the character.  Campaign may have a good amount of Undead which may be problematic but I also may be able to convince to use K's [Dark minded] subtype for undead.

I'm leaning towards taking by Beguiler into Swiftblade but Shadowcraft of course is always awesome and certainly the more optimized choice.

Fun times.
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Freshums

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2009, 07:31:36 PM »
Quote
Invisible spell (CitSc): another suggestion for a feat: "invisible spell" from Cityscape. Fits the Beguiler-theme nicely. It makes spells invisible without the requirement of a higher spell-slot (it has no 'visible manifestation'). This is useless for most Beguiler spells, since they have no visible effect anyway.

I'm not sure if I've read this feat properly, but it seems like you could pair it up with one of the Beguiler's various fog spells to counter True Seeing.

They can either choose to see your illusions or they can choose to see nothing past 5'.

CantripN

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2009, 02:59:43 AM »
Won't work, actually. They'd just see both at once. So they'll ignore the Fog's effect, and know it's there.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2009, 06:35:24 AM »
Won't work, actually. They'd just see both at once. So they'll ignore the Fog's effect, and know it's there.
That's correct for See Invisibility, but not True Seeing.
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gorfnad

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2009, 09:23:55 PM »
Another race for a Beguiler is the Beguiler from Shining South. Small size, +2 Int, +6 Dex, bonus to Hide, and True Sight work very well for a Beguiler.

Hallack

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2009, 07:07:19 PM »
Is there a better way than Arcane Disciple (Spell) or Extra Spell (feat) to add Alter self to the Beguilers capabilities?  In particular looking for Feat or PRC related ways.

Other methods like Ring of Theurgy are also appreciated.

Thanks.

Edit:  I'm also looking at the Arcane Preparation/Cooperative spell combo to take Mage of the Arcane Order for it's Spell Pool.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 07:15:35 PM by Hallack »
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DavidWL

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2009, 07:15:48 PM »
Is there a better way than Arcane Disciple (Spell) or Extra Spell (feat) to add Alter self to the Beguilers capabilities?

If you can get a domain, and you are a changling, then you can snag the transformation domain.  Is there a prestige class which will grant an arbitrary domain to an arcane spellcaster?  (As opposed to the mediocre feat).  I seem to think it is possible ...
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-Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better.

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Pteryx

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2009, 07:17:59 AM »
Is there a better way than Arcane Disciple (Spell) or Extra Spell (feat) to add Alter self to the Beguilers capabilities?  In particular looking for Feat or PRC related ways.

Other methods like Ring of Theurgy are also appreciated.

Thanks.

Extra Spell technically doesn't work for beguilers, warmages, or dread necros at all by RAW, which the FAQ verifies as true.  Whether it would be allowed to do anything by a given DM is going to vary (I allow it to basically act as a more limited version of Advanced Learning, and requests to have it act like Eclectic Learning instead are grounds for slapping).

Anyway, the best idea I can think of is to convince your DM to 1) allow Bloodline feats from Dragon, 2) point out that beguilers, warmages, and dread necros are technically spontaneous casters, and 3) take Obtain Familiar in order to meet the other qualification for Bloodline feats.  Then you just take Aquatic Fey Bloodline from Dragon #335 and you're good to go.  The five redundant spells are worth the four non-redundant ones here, I'd say.  -- Pteryx

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2009, 11:38:59 AM »
The updated bloodline feats in DragComp don't require a familiar.
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Webmetz

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2010, 08:02:09 PM »
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 08:05:47 PM by Webmetz »

deuxhero

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2010, 11:01:25 PM »
Is there a better way than Arcane Disciple (Spell) or Extra Spell (feat) to add Alter self to the Beguilers capabilities?  In particular looking for Feat or PRC related ways.

Other methods like Ring of Theurgy are also appreciated.

Thanks.

Edit:  I'm also looking at the Arcane Preparation/Cooperative spell combo to take Mage of the Arcane Order for it's Spell Pool.


UMD a Runestaff with it, 3/day though (it's hour/level so it isn't that big a hit).

Webmetz

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2010, 11:47:27 PM »
The Telepathy from Mindbender is not something that fits well into most campaigns.
Therefore I adapted the Gnomish Mindbender/Shadowcraft Mage Build to make a Gnomish Shadowcrafter/Shadowcraft Mage Build.
You can substitute Shadowcrafter (Und 43) levels with Rainbow Servant (CDiv), but the I think verdict is out on if you gain the entire Good domain as a beguiler.

Build 1:
Beguiler 5/Shadowcrafter (Und 43) 1/Beguiler 2/Shadowcraft Mage 5 (RoS 120)

Requirements for Shadowcrafter: Spell Focus(Illusion), Greater Spell Focus(Illusion), 3rd level or higher shadow spell, Disguise 4 ranks
Requirements for Shadowcraft Mage: Race: Gnome. Skills: Bluff 4 ranks, Hide 4 ranks. Feats: Spell Focus (illusion). Spells: Able to cast at least three illusion spells, including at least one shadow spell of 4th level or higher.

Suggested Feat: Penumbra Bloodline (at level 3 or 6 or 9), this unlocks 5 extra Shadow/Ethereal themed spells for your Beguiler spell list (Darkness, Evard's Black Tentacles, Shadow Evocation, Plane shift, Greater Shadow Evocation) at the exchange of the loss of your Dancing Lights Spell as well as all Light Evocations (0:Dancing Lights, Flare, Light; 1st: Guiding Light, Lantern Light, Light of Lunia, Light of Mercuria, Light of Venya, Luminous Gaze; 2nd: City Lights, Continual Flames, Rainbow Beam; 3rd: Daylight, Glowing Orb, Rainbow Blast, Wall of Light; 4th:Blistering Radiance; 6th: Ray of Light; 7th: Radiant Assault; 8th:Sunburst) and these other spells (if you somehow gained the ability to cast them: Blinding Breath, Breath Flare, Lucent Lance. I think it is worth it as it gives you early access to Shadow Evocation. It is explainable to take at level 6 or level 9 as you are entering a Shadow class.

This is the build I am getting ready to play.

Build 2 (Slower but higher advanced learning):
Beguiler 5/Shadowcrafter (Und 43) 1/Beguiler 1/Shadowcrafter 1/Shadowcraft Mage 5 (RoS 120)

If you take 2 levels of shadowcrafter before shadowcraft mage, you could push Advanced learning 2 so far ahead that it would net you level 7 or lower spells instead of level 4 or lower. It also has the benefit of pushing Advanced Learning 3 to level 18, which allows you to learn a level 9 spell. Which essentially means, instead of Shadow Conjuration, you can get Greater Shadow Conjuration at level 14 then you can get Shades at level 18. The downside of taking an additional shadowcrafter level is that you lose the Cloaked Casting (+2 DC) you would have gotten at level 20.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 02:26:34 AM by Webmetz »

Webmetz

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2010, 09:16:28 PM »
I also found a prestige class in Sword and Sorcery - Relic and rituals called Penumbral Lord, which is an alternate to shadowcraft mage that can be taken by any race. It kind of messes up the spell leveling though, it does give you new spells for each level though, with the 9th level being a spell called eclipse. If anything, I would start taking it once I hit level 21.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 10:39:20 PM by Webmetz »

Akalsaris

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Re: New Beguiler's Handbook- By Nicholas the Paladin
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2010, 01:32:22 AM »
Is there a better way than Arcane Disciple (Spell) or Extra Spell (feat) to add Alter self to the Beguilers capabilities?

If you can get a domain, and you are a changling, then you can snag the transformation domain.  Is there a prestige class which will grant an arbitrary domain to an arcane spellcaster?  (As opposed to the mediocre feat).  I seem to think it is possible ...

Good call there - the transformation domain is awesome. 

Not sure about any arcane PrC that gets you a domain of your choice.  Wiz/Sorc have the sub levels, which doesn't help beguilers.  There might be an obscure Eberron PrC involving transformation though.