Author Topic: My General Houserules  (Read 11400 times)

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JaronK

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2008, 06:37:22 AM »
What's so hard about it?  They hit with one body part, then they make an offhand attack with another body part.  Flurry is probably a third.  Does the idea of a Monk attacking quickly with both sides of the body seem absurd to you?  The game designers felt no convincing reason against it.  They said as much (please tell me you've read it by now, I even gave the page number).

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Elennsar

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2008, 07:27:00 AM »
What's so hard about "they use both fists" (or fists and a kick, or whatever combination appeals) to make their attack, so "and I make an additional attack" (other than flurry) is not available?

Personally, if monks (or anyone else, but let's use monks because they have a reason to attack unarmed) used their fists by default but wanted an extra attack (kicking or headbutting someone), I'd be fine with that.

I'd want to look up the rules for Multiple Weapons by monsters attacking with natural weapons rather than TWF, however.

And yes, I did read it. I don't agree with them (and don't find their lack of any real explaination convincing).

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AndyJames

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2008, 07:32:36 AM »
Why is a dagger (a light weapon) an attack with only one hand, but a fist (a light weapon) must use both hands?

Psychic Robot

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2008, 07:32:55 AM »
Okay.  The FAQ happens to be official--unlike the Sagetard--so you can disagree all you want, but the guy's houserule is wrong.

Elennsar

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2008, 07:35:50 AM »
If it was "a fist", that would be one thing. If it was "a kick", that would be one thing. "Um, any part of your body" is a bit much.

Can't really make a headbutt and a kick at the same time very well.
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AndyJames

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2008, 07:39:18 AM »
You can if you remember that both are done within a 6 second span of time, not simultaneously.

Elennsar

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2008, 07:42:08 AM »
Or you can remember that six seconds isn't a very long period of time.

Regardless, its not the rule as written (for good or ill), whether or not this guy keeps it as "well, house rule then" is a good question.
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dman11235

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2008, 09:18:46 AM »
Take it to another thread.  I said I consider it RAW but that some don't, and it's obvious that that is correct.  That's why it's there.  Ask EjoThims, we came to the conclusion that BOTH sides are RAW.  We both came up with irrefutable conclusions that we are right.  And anyways: there's always the TWF unarmed thread if you want.

For the record: it's because you only have one unarmed strike, and that is with any part of the body at any time.  The FAQ was clarifying that that section of the monk entry was talking about how you can strike with any part of the body, not just fists, to make your unarmed attack.

And yes, Elennsar is right (I think) in that last post.  If it is not RAW (and that's up to debate: but not here), it is one of my houserules.  That's why I put it there.

I should add: Why PR?  Why did you bring it up even though you said that it shouldn't go here?  Why become a troll?
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RobbyPants

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2008, 09:51:17 AM »
All in all, I'd say these are pretty good rules.  I don't think any will hurt your game, and some I really like to the point where I might use them some day when I can run a game again.  A few I'll comment on:

  • A player chooses at character creation whether to use Dexterity or Strength for determining attack rolls. Likewise, a character chooses whether to use Strength or Constitution for Fortitude saves, Dexterity or Intelligence for Reflex saves, and Wisdom or Charisma for Will saves. These choices can never be changed.
This is interesting.  I've seen it suggested in one of my balance threads.  Persoanlly I don't think I'd use it, but it really helps reduce MAD in some characters.

  • Fractional BAB/saves will be used
It's really too bad this wasn't implemented in core.  I can see why they didn't do it, but it's so helpful.  I remember a player in my last game who wanted to make an Ultimate Magus.  He picked up his PrC at level 6, and his build was Beguiler 1/Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 1/Ultimate Magus 1.  That 6th level PC had a BAB of +1!  Had I been using the fractional rules, it would have been +3.25 (+3 for game purposes).  I know that's an extreme example, but still, good choice!

  • Effects that grant immunity to certain effects now grant a +20 bonus on the appropriate d20 roll (or a -20 penalty, depending on the circumstances). The exceptions are Mind Blank, which grants SR equal to 20+Caster Level against mind-affecting spells and divinations (even if the spell ordinarily wouldn't allow SR for some reason), and True Seeing, which now grants a Caster Level check at a DC of 5+Opposing Caster Level to penetrate illusions. Racial immunities are unaffected. Energy immunities still apply against damage from energy; the +20 applies to appropriate d20 rolls against nondamaging energy effects, such as a Pyrokineticist's Heat Death (effects that deal both damage and have an additional effect use both rules). Being Mindless still grants immunity to mind-affecting effects, however.
I'm doing something similar in my balancing threads, although I hadn't applied a blanket rule yet.  I think I was using either a +/- 10 or a +/- caster level for the modifier.

  • Damage Reduction applies against crushing and falling damage.
This is smart.  I don't think I've ever thought about that, although it's never come up in my games either.

  • A character can forgo using their spell resistance for spells with the (harmless) tag.
If you have to blow a standard action to drop SR, this will be handy as hell.

  • Death By Massive Damage does not exist. If the attack were really that powerful, it would have killed you anyway.
I've always hated that rule too.

  • Homebrewed material will be allowed on a case by case basis.  I am more likely to allow it, but only if it is well done.  If it is under or overpowered I probably won't allow it (to protect you and my campaign respectively), but will allow you to fix it up if possible.  Also if the design sucks (re: fighter-esque) I won't allow it, but again will let you fix it up.  Heck, I'll even help if possible.
This is cool that you're willing to work with your players like this.  I remember making a PrC for a player at her request, and she was quite pleased with it.  I'm not sure she would have wanted to create it on her own anyway, but still, this sends a strong message to your players.  It lets them know that you value their input to the game.  Nicely done!
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EjoThims

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2008, 07:06:46 PM »
Monks, barbarians, hexblades, and fighters must use the variants here....Paladins... from Verold will also be allowed.

 :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love :love



Also, on the TWF unarmed stuff, me and Dman have been over it a thousand times (literally I think), but here is not the place. The both of us could PM you more than enough links to the discussions if you'd like.  ;)

dman11235

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2008, 08:13:01 PM »
Yes Ejo, your fixes are AMAZING.  I thin the Fighter still needs stuff in the later levels though.  After level 13 it's just a normal fighter unless I missed something.

Also, I was considering just using your paladin spell selection with OW4's rebalanced paladin.
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Psychic Robot

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2008, 08:34:43 PM »
I should add: Why PR?  Why did you bring it up even though you said that it shouldn't go here?  Why become a troll?
I didn't realize that correcting a rules mistake equated to "being a troll."

dman11235

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2008, 08:44:07 PM »
You should know that that is a hot topic.  I mean, I am sorry for the troll comment, I was kinda tired and grouchy, but really, I even said that "I consider it RAW, but some don't".  I do apologize for that comment though.  It was unlike me.  Also: take it elsewhere.
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Psychic Robot

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2008, 09:38:16 PM »
I was merely correcting your assumption.  You might consider the nerf to unarmed strikes to be RAW, just like I might consider it to be RAW that spellcasters can only learn fourth-level spells.  We would both be incorrect, but the only difference would be the extent to which we would have erred.

Now that you have seen that your houserule is, in fact, not RAW, it would be good to alter said houserule.  It's not as though monks are power-houses, even if they can use their unarmed strike with TWF.

dman11235

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2008, 09:42:49 PM »
Uh...dude, I've come to the conclusion through many a debate of this that both sides can claim RAW support.  But again, this is not the place for this discussion.
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Elennsar

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2008, 09:46:15 PM »
RAW or HR, does it matter? Seriously?

Can't we argue over something like whether or not this is a good rule (and in another thread as stated) now? Or maybe watch Barney, which at least will have the benefit of allowing us to find out if our brains really will liquify?
Faith can move mountains. It still can't deflect bullets.



"Communication with humans." is a cross-class skill for me. Please bear this in mind.

woodenbandman

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2008, 10:59:55 PM »
Related to the "house rule" on TWF with unarmed strikes: no matter how little sense it makes, it makes mechanical balance sense to be fair. Otherwise a thri-kreen with enough levels of various monk classes could deal upwards of 24d8 damage about 16 times per round.

As you can see, it's much more balanced to have that occur only 5 times per round.

EjoThims

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2008, 10:45:06 AM »
Yes Ejo, your fixes are AMAZING.  I thin the Fighter still needs stuff in the later levels though.  After level 13 it's just a normal fighter unless I missed something.

Whirlwind Strikes, but that kicks in at 11. And the ability to gain different combat styles at once, but that's from feats.

Also, I was considering just using your paladin spell selection with OW4's rebalanced paladin.

Would work pretty well.

Bauglir

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2008, 01:13:14 AM »
Hooray! I'm glad to see that some of the rules I came up with look good. And I find nothing to disagree with in your OP, really. Differences are basically just for personal preference, in pretty much all cases.
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Psychic Robot

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Re: My General Houserules
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2008, 11:28:11 PM »
Related to the "house rule" on TWF with unarmed strikes: no matter how little sense it makes, it makes mechanical balance sense to be fair. Otherwise a thri-kreen with enough levels of various monk classes could deal upwards of 24d8 damage about 16 times per round.

As you can see, it's much more balanced to have that occur only 5 times per round.
How?  Are dervish levels included?