Author Topic: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?  (Read 268704 times)

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #460 on: January 22, 2009, 04:05:33 AM »
Ooh, and it's untyped damage, too. 

A swarm of killer nanobot frisbees, anyone?
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #461 on: January 22, 2009, 04:07:30 AM »
Hmmm. An indestructible disk that explodes without being destroyed...

Animate object! Command it to tap on its own energy!
Might as well Haunt Shift the darned thing...

Freaking brilliant.

Aaaand we have a winner! I wonder how you become immune to the effects of the explosion...so that you can keep trying to UMD. It does say that 'only a spellweaver can utilize a chromatic disk'. So could a changeling with racial emulation use it while attempting to look like a spellweaver?

I just noticed that the spellweaver has telepathy with a range or 1,000 miles. That's some serious radar, given mindsight.

You don't have to, just tell it to self-destruct. The wording is pretty clear... if any other creature tries to tap on its energy, it blows up. By animating it, you're effectively making it a creature, which can then proceed to try and tap into its own energy. And then it blows up.
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Negative Zero

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #462 on: January 22, 2009, 04:10:04 AM »
This puts the term 'Ultimate Frisbee' in a whole new light.

Chemus

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #463 on: January 22, 2009, 05:27:59 AM »
You don't have to, just tell it to self-destruct. The wording is pretty clear... if any other creature tries to tap on its energy, it blows up. By animating it, you're effectively making it a creature, which can then proceed to try and tap into its own energy. And then it blows up.

You're right about that, but I was referring to actually tapping into the 10 spell levels power. The changeling, in attempting to be a spellweaver is of the race spellweaver for all effects. This should bypass the restriction. I was also referring to trying to UMD the item while ignoring the effect of it exploding for untyped damage.
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #464 on: January 22, 2009, 07:34:21 AM »
So we go from Polymorph shenanigans to Killer Frisbees in about a single page?

This is why I love these boards :D
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #465 on: January 22, 2009, 01:21:04 PM »
The chromatic disk Spellweavers have is a little odd.  It's obvious they tried to avoid the heartstone issue here, by saying:

"Only a spell weaver can utilize a chromatic disk. Should any other creature pick one up and try to tap its energy (by
employing the Use Magic Device skill, for instance), it explodes, dealing 4d10 points of damage to everything within a 30-foot radius."

That's well and good.  However, they earlier state that it is a "6-inch-diameter indestructible disk".

So, who's willing to make chromatic disk armor?  Or how about chromatic disk shields for tiny creatures?  Use some sovereign glue and a leather strap and you're good to go.
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Echoes

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #466 on: January 23, 2009, 08:53:47 AM »
I dunno how dirty it is, but there's the secret page trick, wherein you doodle in your spellbook, and then use secret page to make your doodles be whatever spells you want. Every spell ever, for free at level 5. And your professors told you doodling in your notebooks was a waste of time!

Astral projection was mentioned by Lycanthromancer for its practical invulnerability available as early as 9th level for Wizards. However, it goes beyond just that for abuse. Since you get a fresh body each time you manifest, you get all-new copies of your gear, including charged items, so you never need to buy more than one of whatever charged item you want. Also, since your real body never takes damage while you're astrally projected, and you make a copy of your real body whenever you manifest, you get infinite free healing whenever you need it.

Expanding on the abuses one can pull with planar binding, remember that racial spellcasting and spell-like abilities aren't dependent on HD for access. Enter simulacrum, and you've got full access to whatever spells or spell-like abilities you want, so long as something in the multiverse has it as a racial ability. Off the top of my head that includes the full cleric spell list, the full wizard spell list, wish as a SLA, greater teleport at will, astral projection and etherealness, and so much more.
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PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #467 on: January 23, 2009, 01:01:01 PM »
You don't have to, just tell it to self-destruct. The wording is pretty clear... if any other creature tries to tap on its energy, it blows up. By animating it, you're effectively making it a creature, which can then proceed to try and tap into its own energy. And then it blows up.

You're right about that, but I was referring to actually tapping into the 10 spell levels power. The changeling, in attempting to be a spellweaver is of the race spellweaver for all effects. This should bypass the restriction. I was also referring to trying to UMD the item while ignoring the effect of it exploding for untyped damage.
Nope changeling can only count as a race that is humaniod and spellweavers are monstrous humanoids. This is off the top of my head.

About the self-destructing animated disk... if we can get a UMD check down to a swift action then 12d10 in 30' w/o a save is sexy at level 1 if your DM would let you try and template class the LA... probably a long shot, but worth pointin it out
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #468 on: January 23, 2009, 05:20:34 PM »
I dunno how dirty it is, but there's the secret page trick, wherein you doodle in your spellbook, and then use secret page to make your doodles be whatever spells you want. Every spell ever, for free at level 5. And your professors told you doodling in your notebooks was a waste of time!

Doesn't work.  It says "appear to be something entirely different".

So even if it looks like a spell, it won't work.  Just like how I could write instructions for programming in assembler that look internally consistent, but don't actually function.
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Bozwevial

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #469 on: January 23, 2009, 06:16:08 PM »
You can, however, use Secret Page to copy spells into a spellbook and save on the cost, IIRC.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #470 on: January 23, 2009, 07:44:21 PM »
Wait... hobbits have houses with circular doors, right?

Sovereign glue + doorknob makes a chromatic disk into a door.

Then you can enchant it further, and animate it, for the best assassin ever

An animated Silent Portal Chromatic Disk.  It doesn't make a sound, frisbees in, and catches its targets in unblockable AoE damage.
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Straw_Man

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #471 on: January 23, 2009, 07:47:05 PM »

  Exploding-Ninja-Door. It opens and  :flamesurprise!
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Chemus

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #472 on: January 23, 2009, 08:04:58 PM »
Make sure that the handle and silent portal disc are made of adamantine, else they'll be destroyed easily by the assplosion. As objects, they'll take 1/2 damage, and as adamantine, they'll have Hardness 20 (40 HP is max damage).
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Straw_Man

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #473 on: January 23, 2009, 08:10:23 PM »

  I think it's a Platonic designation. Even if the handles are destroyed, it has been a door and keeps the door designation, albeit a broken one.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #474 on: January 23, 2009, 08:34:17 PM »
Make sure that the handle and silent portal disc are made of adamantine, else they'll be destroyed easily by the assplosion. As objects, they'll take 1/2 damage, and as adamantine, they'll have Hardness 20 (40 HP is max damage).

Don't think it deals half damage to objects.  After all, it isn't a ranged weapon, and doesn't have an energy type...
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #475 on: January 23, 2009, 09:09:18 PM »
Make sure that the handle and silent portal disc are made of adamantine, else they'll be destroyed easily by the assplosion. As objects, they'll take 1/2 damage, and as adamantine, they'll have Hardness 20 (40 HP is max damage).

Don't think it deals half damage to objects.  After all, it isn't a ranged weapon, and doesn't have an energy type...

Unless it specifies otherwise, damage to objects is always halved.

Also, it doesn't need a handle or even a hinge. Make it an igloo door (which, is effectively, nothing more than a round lid.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #476 on: January 23, 2009, 10:32:38 PM »
Make sure that the handle and silent portal disc are made of adamantine, else they'll be destroyed easily by the assplosion. As objects, they'll take 1/2 damage, and as adamantine, they'll have Hardness 20 (40 HP is max damage).

Don't think it deals half damage to objects.  After all, it isn't a ranged weapon, and doesn't have an energy type...

Unless it specifies otherwise, damage to objects is always halved.

Also, it doesn't need a handle or even a hinge. Make it an igloo door (which, is effectively, nothing more than a round lid.
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Chemus

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #477 on: January 23, 2009, 10:38:54 PM »
Nope; you are correct. I misremembered the rules because I have generally been thinking in terms of energy damage. It's not any specific energy, and an explosion isn't specifically a ranged weapon. So, even an adamantine Silent Portal Disc will eventually be destroyed. Door ninja is ninja no more  :bigeye

Unless the Silent Portal Disc is the Chromatic Disc enchanted to be such. Or you have two, each making the other silent. Then you have two Door Ninja Assassins! They deal 4d10 each, each round that they attempt to tap into their own energies. Is an indestructible object subject to disintegrate?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 10:43:49 PM by Chemus »
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #478 on: January 23, 2009, 10:54:44 PM »
Nope; you are correct. I misremembered the rules because I have generally been thinking in terms of energy damage. It's not any specific energy, and an explosion isn't specifically a ranged weapon. So, even an adamantine Silent Portal Disc will eventually be destroyed. Door ninja is ninja no more  :bigeye

Unless the Silent Portal Disc is the Chromatic Disc enchanted to be such. Or you have two, each making the other silent. Then you have two Door Ninja Assassins! They deal 4d10 each, each round that they attempt to tap into their own energies. Is an indestructible object subject to disintegrate?

I was thinking of the Silent portal disc enchantment being applied directly a Chromatic Disc.  Deadly frisbee tag teams


And I'd rule yes on disintegrate, since wall of force is indestructible, but disintegrate works on it.


Applying mineral warrior to the animated discs would make them the ultimate siege weapon.  Go underneath whatever you want to destroy, and start destroying the bedrock.
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JaronK

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #479 on: January 24, 2009, 06:44:57 PM »
Make the disc out of Riverine, which is indestructable by damage, and you should be good to go.  Obdurium is pretty good too (hardness 30) and if you cast Augment Object on it (Stronghold Builder's Guide, Level 3 spell, lasts 1 day per caster level, double hardness) and Harden (increase hardness by 1 per 2 caster levels, instantaneous effect) you should be good to go.

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